And though the subject name probably says it all, here's the idea again in more detail:
1) Take a small map, maybe about the size of Highway to Skull or smaller.
2) Make a raised maze of some sort weeving around. You can put ramps or water pits or whatever you'd like in it.
3) Put a lot of metal at the start points so that players can build tiny compact bases
4) Have a lot of wind (or tide?), or something to accomidate easy energy. Afterall this map isn't meant for playing base buster. It's for running around in the maze killing things.
Anyway that was the basic idea, small map, with a maze in the middle, built for the express purpose of hosting little FPS deathmatchs. (Or even air dropping a bunch of units randomly into the maze and then handing them over to a braindead AI and playing hunt the monsters with a friend or something.) I'd be kinda neat if the passageways were wide enough for a small group of guarding units could follow the player's unit around corners and stuff. But that's all optional.
(FPS things like this really need if nothing else, a reverse key to be working on tanks and probably K-bots but it's not 100% nessessary, it'd just fell more right, [speaking from expirence]. Easier to duck and fire repeatedly is all.)
Does anyone like this idea?
FPS Tourniment Map Idea...
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SwiftSpear
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
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I've been considdering a FPS style mod for TA for ages, building different infantry with different firearms, my idea was more around the idea of building a character from a spawnpoint factory, the unit will use 1000 E 1000 M per second so nothing else can be build while the unit is alive, if the unit is dead it can be respawned.
I'm sure there would be problems in this setup so I didn't procceed, I was actually planning on making this mod after WD was complete, but WD is still not completed, esspecially not in spring.
I'm sure there would be problems in this setup so I didn't procceed, I was actually planning on making this mod after WD was complete, but WD is still not completed, esspecially not in spring.
Interesting map idea, but I have a better one:
http://taiskirmish.sourceforge.net/viewtopic.php?id=124
I have it all thought out, I just need a break in my schedule to get into implementing it.
http://taiskirmish.sourceforge.net/viewtopic.php?id=124
I have it all thought out, I just need a break in my schedule to get into implementing it.
Last edited by AF on 05 Oct 2005, 21:08, edited 1 time in total.
thats exactly what I was doing.GrOuNd_ZeRo wrote:I've been considdering a FPS style mod for TA for ages, building different infantry with different firearms, my idea was more around the idea of building a character from a spawnpoint factory, the unit will use 1000 E 1000 M per second so nothing else can be build while the unit is alive, if the unit is dead it can be respawned.
The mod I'm working on is meant to be a port of a FPS game called Wulfram II.
Still working on a plethora of issues with the main unit, haven't even begun anything else. It doesn't help that this would be my first experience with unit building <_<
One thing that I need though, is the ability to bind weapons to keys, or switch weapons. Without that, things like multiple units with preset weapon loadouts are the only solution I can think of.
Edit: yeah, a map like this would be really cool. Pretty easily done with a specially made infantry type unit. I think that WD's infantry set would work decently well for it, actually. Might need to bump their health up a bit though, maybe speed too.
Still working on a plethora of issues with the main unit, haven't even begun anything else. It doesn't help that this would be my first experience with unit building <_<
One thing that I need though, is the ability to bind weapons to keys, or switch weapons. Without that, things like multiple units with preset weapon loadouts are the only solution I can think of.
Edit: yeah, a map like this would be really cool. Pretty easily done with a specially made infantry type unit. I think that WD's infantry set would work decently well for it, actually. Might need to bump their health up a bit though, maybe speed too.
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CaptainMaim
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Well I kinda liked the idea of playing like Old Doom 1 or 2 in Spring just cause I figure those maps are classics...
Anyway, yeah I gave this concept a basic test out.. LIke I said I used fort walls which weren't far enough away from eachother...
I used cheat codes: .cheat and .nocost to rapidly form a large random maze with auto health/resurrect centers on the corners of the map (I used nano towers on a repair and resurrect area order with repeat orders enabled.) Next time I'm having necros follow my character around.
I used a bunch of air transports on repeat orders, with orders to load and unload from the "spawn area" to the entire map area. That's how I placed all my "Monsters". It worked out pretty well too I might add. Very easy... I did something similar with another load area and a smaller unload area to "spawn" in new units for me to attack with.
I also setup guards so that I had an escort as I walked through the maze. Extra guns cause I found my single units would die alot due to the lack of being able to walk backwards. (I couldn't duck and cover during gun fights. I'd just get shot to bits and die after I stepped out. Hence the escorts. More bodies to possess and so on and so forth. Plus they'd shoot and stuff too!) (Oh, PS, I gave all the "Monster" units to an braindead AI so the units would just stand there and wait for me to catch them, sorta like the monsters were in Doom. And most early FPS games.)
(I've got a replay of this if anyone wants it, but it uses a lot of extra units bout 4 megs of them)
Problems I had in my initial setup:
-Most units I used died too quickly, partially because I couldn't take any form of cover from fire, and also because I was close quarters.
-Fort walls don't stop line of sight, ergo any ballistic enemies would shoot over the walls at my character, (CHEATERS! So I ended up using cloaked snipers a bunch.)
-I found it's less agrivating if the units your shooting aren't capable of killing you in 5 shots or less. Mostly because it's just too hard to deal with almost dying every solo encounter. (Killing loads lighter units is much more satasfying. Than having to spawn in lots of reenforcements just to replace all the single kill lives you've just spent.)
-Never make tight doorways, if a corps falls in the door, your either going to have to find an new way around or just blow open a new door (which may mean shooting the corpse to get passed.)
(I also noticed: "Backup units guarding player = good")
So far I like everything said... Indoor look sounds good, I once made a map like what I suggested for Earth 2150... I had a burnt out city in it to fight through and pits and ramps and walls that in some cases could be scaled, and so forth. Placing repair towers on the ridges out of sight could compensate for lower health. Or a gaggle of necros or farks chasing the player might also work but again it's personal preference.
Is there a way to make a decent FPS fighter map? Seems like it'd have an exadurated pincussion look to it. But even then planes don't go splat when they hit stuff in TA.. So.. I dunno if that'd be even worth while.
Summation: 1) Need K-Bot/tank reverse to work! A MUST! 2) Sure make all the maps or mods you like! That sounds cool! 3) I'd still like to use OTA or otherwise units. 4) Unit strafe is optional and probably, (maybe possibly) just a Mod/unit issue.
Anyway, yeah I gave this concept a basic test out.. LIke I said I used fort walls which weren't far enough away from eachother...
I used cheat codes: .cheat and .nocost to rapidly form a large random maze with auto health/resurrect centers on the corners of the map (I used nano towers on a repair and resurrect area order with repeat orders enabled.) Next time I'm having necros follow my character around.
I used a bunch of air transports on repeat orders, with orders to load and unload from the "spawn area" to the entire map area. That's how I placed all my "Monsters". It worked out pretty well too I might add. Very easy... I did something similar with another load area and a smaller unload area to "spawn" in new units for me to attack with.
I also setup guards so that I had an escort as I walked through the maze. Extra guns cause I found my single units would die alot due to the lack of being able to walk backwards. (I couldn't duck and cover during gun fights. I'd just get shot to bits and die after I stepped out. Hence the escorts. More bodies to possess and so on and so forth. Plus they'd shoot and stuff too!) (Oh, PS, I gave all the "Monster" units to an braindead AI so the units would just stand there and wait for me to catch them, sorta like the monsters were in Doom. And most early FPS games.)
(I've got a replay of this if anyone wants it, but it uses a lot of extra units bout 4 megs of them)
Problems I had in my initial setup:
-Most units I used died too quickly, partially because I couldn't take any form of cover from fire, and also because I was close quarters.
-Fort walls don't stop line of sight, ergo any ballistic enemies would shoot over the walls at my character, (CHEATERS! So I ended up using cloaked snipers a bunch.)
-I found it's less agrivating if the units your shooting aren't capable of killing you in 5 shots or less. Mostly because it's just too hard to deal with almost dying every solo encounter. (Killing loads lighter units is much more satasfying. Than having to spawn in lots of reenforcements just to replace all the single kill lives you've just spent.)
-Never make tight doorways, if a corps falls in the door, your either going to have to find an new way around or just blow open a new door (which may mean shooting the corpse to get passed.)
(I also noticed: "Backup units guarding player = good")
So far I like everything said... Indoor look sounds good, I once made a map like what I suggested for Earth 2150... I had a burnt out city in it to fight through and pits and ramps and walls that in some cases could be scaled, and so forth. Placing repair towers on the ridges out of sight could compensate for lower health. Or a gaggle of necros or farks chasing the player might also work but again it's personal preference.
Is there a way to make a decent FPS fighter map? Seems like it'd have an exadurated pincussion look to it. But even then planes don't go splat when they hit stuff in TA.. So.. I dunno if that'd be even worth while.
Summation: 1) Need K-Bot/tank reverse to work! A MUST! 2) Sure make all the maps or mods you like! That sounds cool! 3) I'd still like to use OTA or otherwise units. 4) Unit strafe is optional and probably, (maybe possibly) just a Mod/unit issue.
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
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Ignored with good reason, I think. Show me a working example of this idea of yours, and I'll take notice. Until then, you're just so much hot air.Alantai Firestar wrote:And everyone totally ignores the perfect FPS map concept for spring I posted..... mind you it'd work for small unit limit ordinary games...
As for units to use...you can aim in one direction and walk in another, so walking backwards shouldn't be too much of an issue.
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Guessmyname
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I was actually throwing the idea of "each player starts with a mech and can build a couple others that compilment said mech (ie walking repulsor units that project a small-ish shield, or radar / jammer units, repairs, resurrectors etc) and resource facilities (for powering cloaking and weapons and stuff like that)" around a little in my head. It would actually have a small number of units, but a large number of races to pick from, if you get what I'm saying. A small "on-the-side" mod that can easily be added to. Heck, I've even got two ready-made (read: modelled) mechs already, and there are a lot of third-party (Hey, if Spring is third party, does that make Spring mods fourth party?) TA mechs that could be used...Kuroneko wrote:I've been mucking around with the concept of a DM mod for TA. Just need betalord to add in the ability for more than 2 sides, and it'll be doable :)
What do you lot all think?
Hmm...
I think the best approach would be to do a Team Fortress style game - you just pick one unit, can't build others, and play a game of "defend the building". Each team defends one building. If you die, pick another unit.
The problem is that Spring would need a complete UI overhaul for this sort of thing, particularly if you want to be able to build other units - being able to command units effectively from FPS is really challenging.
The problem is that Spring would need a complete UI overhaul for this sort of thing, particularly if you want to be able to build other units - being able to command units effectively from FPS is really challenging.
Cube? What Cube? The Only COOL cube i know of (aside from Rubix Cubes) is the Borg Cube.
Hmmm... cube...cube...
Nope. Also this FPS idea sounds great, but we need some things... "borrowed" from this game called Rise and Fall, where you can controll a hero unit and do all sorts of damage. So just make a unit spesificaly desinged for FPS'ing and then let it lose in a maze filled with enemys. Also we need crouch, jump, backwards AND flares... NOW!
Hmmm... cube...cube...
Nope. Also this FPS idea sounds great, but we need some things... "borrowed" from this game called Rise and Fall, where you can controll a hero unit and do all sorts of damage. So just make a unit spesificaly desinged for FPS'ing and then let it lose in a maze filled with enemys. Also we need crouch, jump, backwards AND flares... NOW!
Well as for choosing units, make the 'commander' for the team unable to move, look like a building and create the different types of units needed. Then when setting up a game, set the unit limit so that you can only have so many bots about at one time. Then in game each player makes their bot and defends the 'Commander'. When they die, the go back to the commander and create themselfs another unit. They can only create one unit each due to the unit limit, and you could even implement respawn times of a sort by making the units cost energy to build, and the commander only slowly reagin said energy. The commander is the building you have to defend, and the game is won what the commander is destroyed.
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
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http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=1581
you can download my maze concept map here.
No trees, no features, just grass...the hedges are voided.
you can download my maze concept map here.
No trees, no features, just grass...the hedges are voided.
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
Nemo wrote:
FPS Mods sound pretty easy unit wise, but yeah... Depending on what your going for, it can be pretty tricky UI wise. Unless you just made a script that snapped you back to your "commander" and gave you a menu to build from.
(My original idea as I believe I've already made clear was a lot less organized FPS and a lot more free range FPS. But if someone wants to do something like Team Fortress for Spring. That'd be cool. Though I think we can have a few more classes than Team Fortress had.
)
As for the cube idea.. Fire Star, Um.. You can do that if you want.... I'm not really sure why it's the "perfect" FPS concept. Sounds pretty freakishly bizzare to me, like one of those surreal puzzle games with player death traps or something. But if you want to make that, go right ahead.
Jumping and or crouching K-Bots? Let me see... Purely objectively assuming someone wanted to do this:
- Jumping's probably not going to save you from getting shot. Unless your opponent shoots at your feet, but with the game's auto targeting that seems far less likely than just firing straight at you. The same problem exists with crouching... Actually in that case I can see only 2 ways of doing that as the game works now, (correct me if I'm wrong) but you can A) alter the size of the collision sphere, or B) push it into the ground? I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think either is currently possible. Plus like I said, you'd still get shot anyway.
- Jumping won't get you over dragon's teeth or bodies, seeing as they are (as I understand), impassible to ground units and could probably imagined as impassable pillars of infinate height. (Just not to air units as nothing is impassable.) (As for crouching, the game doesn't have anything to crawl under, so.. Dunno what's to gain there either.)
-Jumping won't let your K-bot leap off a cliff, besides if you could actually do that you could just as easily walk off. And you can do that anyway if you want, just make a bot that's got like infinate climbing abilities. Then you get to walk up and down walls. But that's what spiders are for, eh?
- Actually... Thinking about the Spring engine physics (as I understand them, which I'm also aware can be rewritten. In which case anything's possible.) But as the physics stand, I can't see any utility in jumping, but you would look pretty funny. :)
-Now MAYBE Jumping might be good if you could leap from cliff to cliff, but you'd have to catch some serious air or have a lot of cliffs in the map to make it worth bothering with. (Needs to be a major feature I'd think to bother with the trouble of making it happen. Unless a unit can become VTOL and then back to K-bot or tank at will. That's as good as jumping if done right I guess. That'd be one cool unit, On\offable tagged as it refers to "being on the ground". But since that doesn't work in FPS mode [can't press X and use On/offable things]. I dunno. )
In short, I can't imagine much use for jumping, outside of inspiring laughter. Crouching, it doesn't really seem to fit either. I've mentioned "Doom" and "Doom 2" (not Doom 3 that's entirely different.) But the first two Doom games are far closer to the kind FPS game Spring could make. Back before the days of jumping, crouching, and who knows what else has become normal in modern FPS games. (Though in Doom you could at least run off cliffs, even if you couldn't get hurt.. There were acid pools in Doom too, and Spring's got that too.. However unlike in doom, a few well placed projectiles might land you a nice puddle to cool your feet in. Or a nice pool of acid to coax your opponent into?)
Unit strafing (such as the Brawler or Rapier): That could be useful.. Maybe? With the fact that you can rotate your turret, and everything's go t a turret.. It's not really nessessary, but if you wanted to feel like you were playing a regular FPS then you'd need it. If you wanted to feel like playing Mech Warrior (K-Bot Combat) or maybe Battle Field (tank combat), Then strafe is entirely irrelavant.
Cool! I inspired a concept map! NEATO! Thanks Ground Zero! That map's GREAT! (Running around it as a commander made me think... Why not JUST run around it as a commander? Makes me want to dump a bunch of other units around the map and just hunt them down as the commander.. hehe.. That'd be fun!) Anyway love the map! I was kinda thinking of putting repair towers here and there. But it's not all that important, or I can if I just put them in "safe" places...
Okay I guess that's my $2.50 worth of 2 cent ideas.
True... However if you walk around a corner see an enemy, and fire, you have to walk in a circle in order to retreat. And it's a little silly for tanks, as reverse is an intricate part of tank combat. Take Battle Field 1942 style tank combat, very simple, forwards, backwards, rotate, and independant turret for killing things. Forwards only just feels a bit noobish to me when it comes to FPS tank combat. However when it comes to K-bots, it's still very advantagous to walk backwards. Though, if we were going for a Mech Warrior style combat where reverse is very rarely a critical part of the game, then yeah, sure, we don't really need the reverse at all!! It just seems like it could be far more fun with it rather than without. That's all I'm saying.As for units to use...you can aim in one direction and walk in another, so walking backwards shouldn't be too much of an issue.
FPS Mods sound pretty easy unit wise, but yeah... Depending on what your going for, it can be pretty tricky UI wise. Unless you just made a script that snapped you back to your "commander" and gave you a menu to build from.
(My original idea as I believe I've already made clear was a lot less organized FPS and a lot more free range FPS. But if someone wants to do something like Team Fortress for Spring. That'd be cool. Though I think we can have a few more classes than Team Fortress had.
) As for the cube idea.. Fire Star, Um.. You can do that if you want.... I'm not really sure why it's the "perfect" FPS concept. Sounds pretty freakishly bizzare to me, like one of those surreal puzzle games with player death traps or something. But if you want to make that, go right ahead.
Jumping and or crouching K-Bots? Let me see... Purely objectively assuming someone wanted to do this:
- Jumping's probably not going to save you from getting shot. Unless your opponent shoots at your feet, but with the game's auto targeting that seems far less likely than just firing straight at you. The same problem exists with crouching... Actually in that case I can see only 2 ways of doing that as the game works now, (correct me if I'm wrong) but you can A) alter the size of the collision sphere, or B) push it into the ground? I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think either is currently possible. Plus like I said, you'd still get shot anyway.
- Jumping won't get you over dragon's teeth or bodies, seeing as they are (as I understand), impassible to ground units and could probably imagined as impassable pillars of infinate height. (Just not to air units as nothing is impassable.) (As for crouching, the game doesn't have anything to crawl under, so.. Dunno what's to gain there either.)
-Jumping won't let your K-bot leap off a cliff, besides if you could actually do that you could just as easily walk off. And you can do that anyway if you want, just make a bot that's got like infinate climbing abilities. Then you get to walk up and down walls. But that's what spiders are for, eh?
- Actually... Thinking about the Spring engine physics (as I understand them, which I'm also aware can be rewritten. In which case anything's possible.) But as the physics stand, I can't see any utility in jumping, but you would look pretty funny. :)
-Now MAYBE Jumping might be good if you could leap from cliff to cliff, but you'd have to catch some serious air or have a lot of cliffs in the map to make it worth bothering with. (Needs to be a major feature I'd think to bother with the trouble of making it happen. Unless a unit can become VTOL and then back to K-bot or tank at will. That's as good as jumping if done right I guess. That'd be one cool unit, On\offable tagged as it refers to "being on the ground". But since that doesn't work in FPS mode [can't press X and use On/offable things]. I dunno. )
In short, I can't imagine much use for jumping, outside of inspiring laughter. Crouching, it doesn't really seem to fit either. I've mentioned "Doom" and "Doom 2" (not Doom 3 that's entirely different.) But the first two Doom games are far closer to the kind FPS game Spring could make. Back before the days of jumping, crouching, and who knows what else has become normal in modern FPS games. (Though in Doom you could at least run off cliffs, even if you couldn't get hurt.. There were acid pools in Doom too, and Spring's got that too.. However unlike in doom, a few well placed projectiles might land you a nice puddle to cool your feet in. Or a nice pool of acid to coax your opponent into?)
Unit strafing (such as the Brawler or Rapier): That could be useful.. Maybe? With the fact that you can rotate your turret, and everything's go t a turret.. It's not really nessessary, but if you wanted to feel like you were playing a regular FPS then you'd need it. If you wanted to feel like playing Mech Warrior (K-Bot Combat) or maybe Battle Field (tank combat), Then strafe is entirely irrelavant.
Cool! I inspired a concept map! NEATO! Thanks Ground Zero! That map's GREAT! (Running around it as a commander made me think... Why not JUST run around it as a commander? Makes me want to dump a bunch of other units around the map and just hunt them down as the commander.. hehe.. That'd be fun!) Anyway love the map! I was kinda thinking of putting repair towers here and there. But it's not all that important, or I can if I just put them in "safe" places...
Okay I guess that's my $2.50 worth of 2 cent ideas.