AI Compatibility with Complete Annihilation's Pylons

[Netherwolf]

So far, every AI I've used in recent stable revisions of Complete Annihilation either spend their time gardening (straight solar panels and mexes) or have aneurysms at the beginning of the match. The culprit is apparently the new pylon system used to handle mex overdrive. And apparently, this system is here to stay. So I'm curious on the AI developer community's reaction to this is and if any AI's will be made to work with CA's new mode of operation.
I confess noobness here. I'm a very timid (read: turtle) player so I haven't ventured out in to the online matches yet - I only watch in quiet envy. From what I've gathered (and I'm probably wrong), Complete Annihilation is kind of like of the red-headed step-child that drives a Ferrari: they tend to get ignored a lot, but they're cool enough to have earned their own place in the world.
So to further confuse my original question: does anyone have plans to make their AI's CA-friendly (even though it was CA that broke it) or does anyone have time to very slowly mentor a green AI designer but decent intermediate-level programmer (who only recently learned to tolerate state machines)?

(EDIT: From the CA sub-forum)

There are no 3rd party AIs that work well with CA.
There are no 3rd party AIs that work well with CA.
and
There are no 3rd party AIs that work well with CA.
Use the packaged chickendefense AIs only, please. If it doesn't say chicken on it, it's not recommended.

Well... I feel like a jack ass. Still willing to be mentored if anyone's offering.

[hoijui]

i do not think that anyone will want to be your mentor officially, things work different. there are quite some people that could help you from time to time, and usually they do help if they are around. so you just start, and ask for help in the lobby, and if someone is around, you'll get helped, and if not, you have to wait, ask on the forum, or go on trying yourself.
btw, i recommend using the Java AI Interface, or if it has to be C++, the new C++ Wrapper, not the Legacy one. An other option is writing a Lua AI of course. You may also define some principles first, and discuss them with the AI and CA community maybe.
For example:
* AI will only support CA
* AI will not use config-files

lobby channels for AI devs:
#ai #sy

[Netherwolf]

All right. We'll see what happens. And yes, I think I will much prefer the Java interface.

[hoijui]

nice :D
if you have technical problems with it, ask me, if i am around, for example: "game crashes when i try to get unit position"
for logical problems like "how do i find out where i can build building X with mod Y", i can not help, but others in #ai usually can, or on the forum.

[AF]

Pylons? Please describe this! The CA people as of yet have made no attempt to barge into this forum and declare a problem is present, from what I hear they just say 'USE CHICKENS!' any chance they get.

Normally when this happens the modder either is unable to work with AI developers due to some psychological problem or ideology that we're the ones who're supposed to come along and do all the work for them, OR they have an uber secret AI project under wraps.

[zwzsg]

Pylons? Please describe this!

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=22143

The CA people as of yet have made no attempt to barge into this forum and declare a problem is present, from what I hear they just say 'USE CHICKENS!' any chance they get.

Normally when this happens the modder either is unable to work with AI developers due to some psychological problem or ideology that we're the ones who're supposed to come along and do all the work for them, OR they have an uber secret AI project under wraps.

I don't know which alternate reality you live in, but in mine, AI developpers aren't supportive of gameplay features deviating from BA.

The closest I ever saw was you and Baczek coding dispatch command support to your AIs. Otherwise, everybody asking AI dev for specific game support gets answered to write a config or that the AI dev is not interested.

[AF]

AI developers normally do their own thing unless approached. They're normally more concerned with getting something working with the game they want to play than supporting everything and anything.

TA based games normally get AI work for free because AIs tend to be written by TA players, and most demand in the olden days was for TA AIs.

There's also the bgi question mark over games with lua gadgets, we know there's an API but most noobs would rather stick to what's already been done than faff around with it.


Then there's the hostility, most games developers are either of the opinion that we should be writing lua gadgets and vehemently oppose any other kind fo AI, or they're unnaproachable.

For the rest it is a matter of awareness. I have never targeted CA for example because I do not know hat doing that would entail, and tbh I am of the same position for anything but vanilla kernel panic, I've never tried any of the more exotic forms of gameplay so I wouldn't know how to support it.

It's when you have an AI developer whose happy his code base works and has spare time and overambitious ideas that you get AI developers venturing outside their comfort field. That's why I started meddling with nanoblobz and EE with NTai of my own accord.

[hoijui]

please stop derailing from topic.
CA is harder to support for AI devs then other TA mods, and no AI dev yet (or lets say, until a week ago) has declared to make an AI especially for CA. at first, it was hard/impossible because of CA relying on morphing heavily, and AIs not having a way to use that, due to interface limitations or complications or whatever. then there were possibly psychological things involved.

hope you get it going, Netherwolf.
good luck!

[AF]

It was explained to me that mexes in CA can do overdrive, but to do so they need pylons to transport the energy to them, so you need a web of pylons to move the energy from where its being produced to where the mexes are, like pylons in real life carrying power from power stations.

[Kerr]

Correct. lol. (there are also two types, one of them can only transport energy and is much cheaper, the other one can overdrive mexes)

And I think car said that to me too lol (if it doesn't say chicken it's evil!), i got the AI to connect pylons mostly properly with Shoot Hard And Reclaim Dem! ai (lol i have to tease AF with that one, Shard) by having it build pylons at proper intervals it usually gets a pylon to the mexes, and links most of the energy.