Please include World Builder and Feature Placer in Spring

[Forboding Angel]

I'm not kidding, these tools are extremely useful, and should not have to be included with the map (making the map size very bloated).

[Argh]

I am working on it. I don't see the point in Feature Placer; it doesn't do anything WB doesn't do.

[Forboding Angel]

Well, it does a lot more than just place features. I know that WB does as well, but they are two separate systems and imo they are both really good. WB is a bit more unwieldy because of it's size, whereas feature placer can be included with the map without causing too much bloat.

However, imo including both with spring would solve both issues.

Feature placer also has the current need to use gundam in sandbox mode for feature placing, but in many ways, how feature placer works is superior to WB. That said, I like the way WB does some things more.

Regardless, I can't use WB because of it's size. I can barely use Feature Placer because it is much smaller, but I want the option to be able to use one or the other without needing to have a massive include.

Another thing is, feature placer completely changes things on the map front. I won't bother going into detail, but it instantly eliminates a lot of long boring steps. To my knowledge WB does not do this.

Maybe the two of you should swallow your differences and take an indepth look at each other's projects, cause they are both good, and if we had the features of both available at the same, time, that would be hardcore awesome.

[Forboding Angel]

I am working on it. I don't see the point in Feature Placer; it doesn't do anything WB doesn't do.

Directly answering this, it does a lot that WB doesn't do. But the inverse is true as well.

[Pxtl]

The nicest thing would be if maps could declare dependency packages and SpringDownloader would fetch it automagically - so you could use WB for a map, and then SD would auto-fetch the WB package for it.

[Argh]

it does a lot that WB doesn't do

...like what, exactly? I mean... does it have a better UI, or something? I mean, placing stuff with WB is... about as easy as it can be, making a map with it is easy, so I'm pretty curious.

And where do we download it, to see for ourselves?

[smoth]

always about the competition..

[AF]

I dont know where to get feature placer and no docs or even pictures of world builder have ever been posted

[Tobi]

The nicest thing would be if maps could declare dependency packages

Possible. (Always been, at least for as long as I know.)

and SpringDownloader would fetch it automagically

Don't know if this is possible already, but should be straightforward to implement if it has dependency support for game archives.

[Argh]

no docs or even pictures of world builder have ever been posted

Docs are in the download, it's almost 100% idiot-proof to use and you've seen dozens of screenshots of maps built with it. Anybody who cries about that topic has never actually tried using it, tbh.

[zwzsg]

(making the map size very bloated).

Then include all the features*, with their 3D objects, textures, TDF, etc... but not the Lua code!

The art assets can easily be shared by every feature-placment system (From WB to FP through UC down to mapconv's fs.txt), and make up 99% of the bulkyness, while .lua is insignificant. Not even Argh can type megabytes of source code. (Though his .lua-generated .lua might, but that's just bad design, and part of the individual maps, not of WB package.)

*Yeah I know Argh often use live Gaia units in place of feature, but I'm afraid units may cause more integration problem with mods than plain features

[AF]

no docs or even pictures of world builder have ever been posted

Docs are in the download, it's almost 100% idiot-proof to use and you've seen dozens of screenshots of maps built with it. Anybody who cries about that topic has never actually tried using it, tbh.

0_o

User uses the screenshots and docs of the tool as justification to download tool

But user needs to download worldbuilder to view the stuff they need to justify, to download the stuff that they saw, to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw, to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw,to view the stuff they need, to justify the stuff they need to download the stuff they saw

Now do you see why your current policy on marketting is utter b*llocks? Only 1/10,000 potential userswill download your software because you suggested it, the other 9,999 will go grab the inferior tool with the screenshot and the nice concise how to, that actually attempts to justify itself to you.

But once again I will make a HUGE point, one you insist on ignoring:

and you've seen dozens of screenshots of maps built with it

I want screenshots of worldbuilder itself, not its output.

If I asked for a screenshot of 3DS Max, would you load 3ds max and press printscreen? Or would you show me a 3ds max model exported into spring format?

If I asked you for a picture of MS Word, would you show me Microsoft word? Or would you show me a photograph of a word document you printed out this morning?

Why do I not level these points at smoth and featureplacer?

• Smoth doesn't care
• Smoth built featureplacer for himself
• Smoth isn't pushing featureplacer for use by other mappers
• Smoth hasn't exclaimed astonishment that other users have yet to pick up his work

The most sobering point I can make is that the effort to post a screenshot and a 2 paragraph howto are tiny, yet the benefits are huge.

Yet instead you have chosen to waste almost 100x the time and effort fighting it and doing the opposite in exchange for a miniscule amount of kudos and gain on all fronts.

[Gota]

+1 make screenies and tell in short what it is capable of.

[smoth]

I don't care if argh steals whatever features people like from feature placer and put them into worldbuilder.. hell I encourage it. Feature placer is there, I will use it, probably improve it over time and if others want to use it good for them. I have said it before. there is nothing wrong with alternatives, this is just something that is out there and why argh cannot stand the fact that the guy who suggested the idea of feature placement tool would want to make his own because he wants to is beyond me. I don't care if he makes world builder or if no one uses feature placer. For gods sake all it does is places some damn features, I am not banging arghs girlfriend or anything personal.

[CarRepairer]

Can I download WorldBuilder without downloading an executable file? Please give me the link to it, if so.

[Argh]

It's right there. The version for 1.3 (much spiffier) is not yet available.

[CarRepairer]

It's right there. The version for 1.3 (much spiffier) is not yet available.

Does 1.3 have Glest stuff?

[Argh]

Yes.

[AF]

It would appear you are in an epic public relations debacle that is progressing not over hours, but years.

[Neddie]

I'm still willing to help with PR for anything from P.U.R.E. to a new project.