autohosts in lobby server

[mongus]

<[PoCS]Crappage> There is no need to have so many autohosts

[bartvbl]

if someone wants to have an autohost, they can do so on my part. I dont have any problem with that.

[Neddie]

If you're going to start a new thread, at least make an attempt at making it relevant and including new content, whether in the form of evidence or argument. Autohosts are administrated by people who choose to host them, we have no control over them, an excess of them is merely space for growth. Even if we did have control, the rule of thumb is to double your hosting every time your average usage grows beyond half the present capacity so you can cope for peaks.

There are not enough autohosts for the legitimate games on the engine, and too many for *A. Just how it is. Not a actionable topic.

[Neddie]

moderator.

i have made a note on your action over the topic "autohost in lobby server".

I really dont see how you can have the final word on such a subject.

i really think there is more people that has something to say in this subject.

you are negating the posibility to talk this matters.

your modderation there is bad.

your arguments dont make sense, and even if they were, people has the freedom to disagree.

I request you to unlock the thread.

Very well. I don't know how I could be any clearer, my arguments are crystal clear, and it isn't a matter of disagreement. This discussion has been had numerous times and will not have any effect.

We don't have control over autohosts being hosted, they're hosted by individuals who choose to host them for whatever reason. If you want fewer autohosts, discussing it here isn't at all useful. Talk to those who run the hosts directly.

The excess of autohosts does nothing negative, since people generally join those who have people in them, and we always have enough capacity for peak players. You can always filter out hosts with no players. Furthermore, we also have relay hosts, which are still getting significant use, indicating that we may in fact have too little hosting.

There aren't enough autohosts for several projects on the engine. I know 1944, Gundam and Kernel Panic would all like to run more autohosts. The players of your own TA derivative of choice, XTA, requested I run autohosts for them in the past. In fact, I'm pretty sure you made requests as to the operation of my autohost numerous times.

What more is there to be said? I've heard many sides to this argument. It always comes down to some people complaining because there are a lot of empty hosts for games they don't play during the time period that they are online. These people argue with people who play games or mods that lack enough hosting, people who run hosts, and the moderation team which has no authority over the operation of hosts. The only legitimate reason to force the closure of a host from our side is if it doesn't function or if it is being abused in some way and thus compromises the Spring experience.

Note: I closed the thread because it was reported for being redundant, which it is, and because it didn't add anything to the prior discussion. You could have simply bumped a previous thread, or said something of value on the topic, but instead you just quoted and posted... this thread itself was virtually devoid of content until my post.

[smoth]

Does it really matter that there are autohosts? I don't care if there are 999 of them, there is no reason people should not be able to have them.

[SirMaverick]

<[PoCS]Crappage> There is no need to have so many autohosts

Why?
Better too many then not enough.
Most (all?) lobby clients can filter battle list.

I don't see a problem.

[mongus]

The problem, is, its not needed, and makes up for a sort of spam.

Confusing for the new player.

Im thinking of the guy who just downloads the game, logs in and sees the wall of autohosts (most of them empty).




Dont expect a noob to use filters well, and even if you filter all BA games in, for example, you still get an incredible ammount of autohosts (>20).

Using: "players ingame > 0" does a great job though.
Around 4 or 5 hosts with players in them.


But who teaches the noobs the filter trick?





Having 2 hosts per mod, with players in them, is what a new player needs to see when he joins.

Autohosts could make it so, that when there is a need for an autohost, to kick in and host a game. Fore example, when there is only 1 authost for the mod X.

Even better, could be a noob only zone, like some online games have, were the new players can only play against each other, till they reach certain level, and can play against all.

This can only work if there is some sort of hosts channels.

This could make some sense if spring still had a good stream of new players, which i think it doesnt have any more. (statistic graphics anyone?).


and neddiedrow, I would like to see links to where this has been discussed before, because i totally missed, and would like to see more opinions on it besides yours (which is by no way conclusive as you are only a moderator). Thats the way you usually deal with duplicated content, by linking, and not closing/censoring. But who cares! we have a censoring policy for dealing with this stuff, cool.

[hunterw]

so what?

90% of FPS servers are always empty

this is possibly the one thing that won't be incomprehensible to noobs, unlike shit like "player join ID, an unchangable and irrelevant variable determines AI start location", or "left click selects/cancels and right click does actions, UNLESS you are building stuff, then left click does actions and right click cancels" etc

[Neddie]

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17894
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=16857
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14866

Just a few of the discussions had here, not to mention the many on the lobby and those who are sidetracks in other threads. You should have done your research before opening the thread.

I'm an administrator, actually, and most of what I said was not opinion. You can make a thread about it, but the contents of this thread aren't going to change anything... only talking to the people who run autohosts will.

Autohosts could make it so, that when there is a need for an autohost, to kick in and host a game. Fore example, when there is only 1 authost for the mod X.

This is a good suggestion, you could take it to the maintainers of SPADS or Springie if you wish.

[SirMaverick]

But who teaches the noobs the filter trick?

Some of them will know such functions from other games. Those who don't can ask or think about what the "filter" button might be good for etc.
Besides filter you can sort battle list. That also helps you to find what you are looking for.

[mongus]

Thank you neddiedrow but im perfectly capable to suggest things on my own without you letting me thanks.

And stop vomiting your short sigthed/single minded/non diverse/partial opinions in my thread, hope that is enough.


Cool, 3 threads about the same issue. its almost a mtr.

Great Braindamage is implementing some sort of solution... but is it unique for Splinglobby?


Some think autohosts are uneeded, and i agree, in the old times... there were not autohosts, and we still were able to play, very well.

Actually, autohosts take away some of the personal touch when hosting.

Actually autohosts dont think, and as they dont think, they can host DSD for weeks without a twich, which a human host wouldnt. I think a human host would .. sooner or later, get fed of playing just one map, and try something else. Somehow autohosts take away character out of the hosting. And "colectivize" .. the descition, .... even democracy needs a leader.

To be fair, autohosts do work in some areas non involving descition, its believed and usually true that they are more reliable than player hosts, but its like if they have hijacked the hosting list from us.


to hunterw:
True, FPS host lists are always empty, but does not make the arguments exposed here and the other threads less true either.

the other thing about ai start.. didnt get it, but make thread and explain?


maybe the chanserv can tallk to bots and request?

[Snipawolf]

What's the difference between an autohost and a dedicated server? There are hundreds of them on other games compared to only tens of them on Spring. Quit whining.

You never hear people complain about a 24/7 specific map dedicated server, do you? Why should one complain when an autohost 'plays' the same map over and over?

[SpikedHelmet]

If someone is too stupid to learn how a simplistic filter works, they don't deserve to play. And while your aggravation fills me with emotears, autohosts are there for a reason; not everyone has the CPU or bandwidth or whatever to be able to host large games on their own computers, or socket connection/NAT traversal know-how to make sure everyone else can connect properly.

[Argh]

Could somebody... please... explain to me, why people putting up their computers and bandwidth and setting up games to be available is something worthy of complaint?

I mean... seriously. I can see the need for more filtering, but if anything, it would probably be best to segregate autohosts into their own channel, so that people who can't host have a place to go, immediately.

This is the natural place to have noobs go when they first log on to the Lobby, since, on top of having to try and learn a game online, they also should not have to mess with hosting from the very start- they can just select an autohost and gogogo (ofc, it would really help if hosts were all segregated by game, so that if you've just downloaded S'44, it's easy to see the S'44 autohost, for example).

Lastly, if there's anything I see a real need for, it's noob-game autohosts that have coop vs. AIs, for people to learn the game, for games that don't have a single-player experience. It is dumb, dumping newbies straight into MP, when it would be 100% more productive to put them into coop SP.

[Nemo]

You can include a conf file with springlobby in the installer that automatically sets a default filter. Everyone who uses the S44 installer only sees S44 games by default (of course, that doesn't stop them from finding BA, it just takes them an extra day or two).

[Regret]

Vast majority of online games that require a host/server do have shitloads of hosts/servers.

The more available hosts there is the better for Spring, it means community is active and growing.

[mongus]

What's the difference between an autohost and a dedicated server? There are hundreds of them on other games compared to only tens of them on Spring. Quit whining.

Read the thread, and the other linked threads, you will see why ppl complains.

Could somebody... please... explain to me, why people putting up their computers and bandwidth and setting up games to be available is something worthy of complaint?

where did you read that? the issue is not with the people putting their.. etc etc, its about another thing, its about making the host list less confusing.

And while your aggravation fills me with emotears, autohosts are there for a reason; not everyone has the CPU or bandwidth or whatever to be able to host large games on their own computers, or socket connection/NAT traversal know-how to make sure everyone else can connect properly.

That justifies autohosts, which i agree with, but does not justify the spam of them.

You can include a conf file with springlobby in the installer that automatically sets a default filter. Everyone who uses the S44 installer only sees S44 games by default

Will lead to ppl asking "why i cant see BA games", and ppl answering "use the filters button"... which thinking it twice, can be a good thing. :)

(of course, that doesn't stop them from finding BA, it just takes them an extra day or two).

If someone is too stupid to learn how a simplistic filter works, they don't deserve to play.

Which recalls me, the filters button is just an arrow... hard to spot, (i discovered it releases after its introduction, when i was looking for a way to get rid of the ugly spammy autohost list btw.).
"Filter games" title anyone?

The more available hosts there is the better for Spring, it means community is active and growing.

That is a false perception. and does not justify the ugly sight. is one of the most stupid reasons ive read to justify spam ever. i mean if i receive lots and lots of email spam, its ok, it means the internet is growing and its userbase is getting bigger so dont do shit about it. >_> we dont have a grip on commercial spammers, while we can do something about the spring autohosts.
I only see spam in those 20 extra empty servers.
Although, seems statistics show you are rigth about the community growing, slowly, but still growing.
http://planetspads.free.fr/spring/stats/graph_53.html
(contrary to what i thought, that it was shrinking).
And remember, spring is not an FPS.


finally

You never hear people complain about a 24/7 specific map dedicated server, do you? Why should one complain when an autohost 'plays' the same map over and over?

And this is a hole new thread topic, but...

that doesnt mean you shouldnt, if everyone does not, why should i right? dumb.

There are at LEAST 45 alternatives to DSD (4v4 BA), good alternatives i mean. I really want to try them!

Im just ... suggesting autohosts to have a way to encourage diversity... as they lack criteria, although this is like forcing the players to play in another maps... which is abusing power...

personally would not care to be forced to a different(non repeating/correctly cycled) map, if it can host the same/correct amount of players.






Another guy pretty summed it all up in one of the other threads:
Having just one empty autohost at the time.

[JohannesH]

Another guy pretty summed it all up in one of the other threads:
Having just one empty autohost at the time.

Why... That would be totally retarded. Different autohosts have different map lists, different ban lists, different admins, play different games etc. Different autohosts are NOT the same.

[KingRaptor]

all these autohosts are preventing me from playing other maps

[Regret]

That is a false perception. and does not justify the ugly sight. is one of the most stupid reasons ive read to justify spam ever. i mean if i receive lots and lots of email spam, its ok, it means the internet is growing and its userbase is getting bigger so dont do shit about it. >_> we dont have a grip on commercial spammers, while we can do something about the spring autohosts.
I only see spam in those 20 extra empty servers.
Although, seems statistics show you are rigth about the community growing, slowly, but still growing.
http://planetspads.free.fr/spring/stats/graph_53.html
(contrary to what i thought, that it was shrinking).
And remember, spring is not an FPS.

You label logic as false perception and you label services (you or other people need) paid by someone else provided for YOU as spam.

You are stupid and I hope you leave Spring due to abundance of hosts.

Also you can turn the display of empty autohosts off if you can't handle sorting by playercount. This is a non-issue.