OTAR-EVAMP Side Project

OTAR-EVAMP Side Project

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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Guessmyname
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OTAR-EVAMP Side Project

Post by Guessmyname »

Everyone seems to think that we need to redo all the TA content (I can't see why Atari would have a go at us: the only way to play Spring legally is to own TA - which isn't on the shelves anymore, so it can hardly do any damage to their profits now can it?) so I decided (as a side project to Epic TA) to make some new models for Spring. Here's what I've made so far:

Image

RLA at the back, HCA at the front

What I need help with:

Balancing (I'll try to keep OTA balance, but it will be different - different unit sizes, Spring's new features etc)
I need a unit list so that I don't miss anything
Textures
Scripting (I can do intermediate unit scripts but not factories and cons and that)

Comments und Critisisms please!

Storyline: Short version
The RLA (Robotic Liberation Army - CORE) is fighting the HCA (Human Clone Army - ARM) to free their robotic brothers. The HCA is fighting to stop the RLA's dastardly plan to force humans into actually doing work again!
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
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Post by GrOuNd_ZeRo »

A direct TA clone wouldn't be a great answer.

We're better off reinventing the official spring RTS gameplay, maybe a game that is set off in the not so distant future where mankind freely travels from star to star and they run into a alien menance that doesn't know much more than DESTROY everything not theirs.
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FizWizz
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Post by FizWizz »

Hasn't that been done plenty before? At the very least don't make it a 3-way conflict involving sides that are 'advanced,' 'brutish,' and then some midpoint contender. *cough cough*SC*cough cough*.
Quite frankly, I think that humans are misfortunate enough to have the company of each other, and plenty of bloodshed can be dreamt up from that. I think it's better to imaginatively approach a mundane idea (people fighting each other) than to approach an imaginative idea mundanely (people fighting 1-dimensional aliens).
Not that I think that aliens are a completely bad idea. Look at Masters of Orion 1/2/3: There was a whole slew of different races that were pretty unique in gameplay. Of course, MoO wasn't real-time, but it was kickin' nonetheless.
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

I agree with FizWizz. Humain's fighting alien's kindof gets tired after a while. Also Moo 1/2/3 all rocked, and i like 3 the best. Well first i hated it, then i kindof liked it then BAM! i was up till two playing it! Wird, huh.

Also i alway's though the idea that humainkind would even be CLOSE to a alien race's techlevel is a little improbeble. Its either A) We are FAR more advanced then they are, or B) We are WAY less advanced.

But i wasthinking that a TA Clone would be a terrible idea, rather some one should think up a detailed backround, plot ext and all the stuff required for a good RTS.... Ill be right back, but every one stay here. This is going to be great! 8)
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

Before our world had even cooled, a dire threat faced the thousand races├óÔé¼Ôäó that inhabited the outer edge of the galactic core. The Core, the massive bejeweled cloud of energy that was the center of our galaxy, had begun a fatal climax to a million year old countdown. The stars of the Core are much closer together then the outer arm├óÔé¼Ôäós, and this allowed Slower then light travel ship├óÔé¼Ôäós to reach other star├óÔé¼Ôäós in only a year, or at best a few month├óÔé¼Ôäós.

The Galactic Senate formed and ruled semi-peacefully for thousand├óÔé¼Ôäós of year├óÔé¼Ôäós. Empire├óÔé¼Ôäós grew and faded, and the Core seemed to last forever. However the energy coming off each star fed into the others, making the Core a hot bed of radiation. Race├óÔé¼Ôäós that didn├óÔé¼Ôäót cope, died out, but most survived and continued on with the status co. The stars though, they began to age faster, burning there hydrogen at an increased rate.

One by one the star├óÔé¼Ôäós began to supernova, and these massive energy├óÔé¼Ôäós caused other star├óÔé¼Ôäós to supernova as well, creating a crescendo of energy that wiped out the Core in one massive, slow motion explosion. The race├óÔé¼Ôäós panicked, but bogged down by bureaucracy and bickering, no major evacuations took place. Some race├óÔé¼Ôäós escaped in tiny ramjet ships, but most where consumed by the deadly wave of gamma radiation that spilled form the Core.

The outer race├óÔé¼Ôäós, the ones that weren├óÔé¼Ôäót powerful enough, economically or politically, to force there way into the rich hot bed of the Core, saw the holocaust that consumed thousand├óÔé¼Ôäós of race├óÔé¼Ôäós. The charismatic leader of a race known as the J├óÔé¼Ôäóokall took quick control of the Outer Senate and organized a massive exodus, before the wave of Gamma radiation overcame them. It took fifty year├óÔé¼Ôäós, and they lost many of the inner race├óÔé¼Ôäós, but the majority of the Arm sector escaped.

The Arm sector was facing towards the third arm of the galaxy, the races of the other two Arm sector├óÔé¼Ôäós have never been contacted by this one. There fate was never found, and the fleeing race├óÔé¼Ôäós didn├óÔé¼Ôäót care enough to send scout├óÔé¼Ôäós around the cloud of radiation.

Even though the Exodus Fleet, or the EF, was using ramjets and flying at demi-light-speed, the Core Explosion still gained. As thing├óÔé¼Ôäós looked grim, a amazing mind from a race of famed thinkers found the secret of hyperspace, and how to travel faster then light. The EF suddenly started to gain ground, and headed outwards, towards the Cloud of Magellan, and possible to Andromeda. Where ever they needed to go.

The EF formed a police force the keep malcontent├óÔé¼Ôäós under control, and called them the Guardian├óÔé¼Ôäós. Only a few minor wars occurred, and some race├óÔé¼Ôäós where confined into radio silence, forbidden to leave there World-Ship. Those ships, named the Outcast├óÔé¼Ôäós, clustered around the network of ships of the EF. Some ships exploded like miniature sun├óÔé¼Ôäós, fusion bomb├óÔé¼Ôäós strapped to there hull set off. Million├óÔé¼Ôäós perished as the Guardians kept the peace.

A minor scuffle happened at the outer edge of the Galactic Arm. It involved a race of semi-evolved, but very stubborn and pugnacious, apes. They joined up with the fleet after a minor war. When they saw the explosion shining through the dust cloud├óÔé¼Ôäós near the center of the galaxy, the negotiation├óÔé¼Ôäós where quickly over. The humans stuck to the dank subsections of the most charitable race in the EF, the Shofixti. The human├óÔé¼Ôäós, pushed to new level├óÔé¼Ôäós of xenophobia and general anti alienisms, sulked and plotted.

The Shofixti simply shock there head and subdued the human uprising├óÔé¼Ôäós with as little violence as possible. After a few centuries, after the EF had cleared the edge of the Galaxy, the humans and the Shofixti had grown so used to each other, that they barley noticed any difference between them. Aside form the fact that the human├óÔé¼Ôäós had a amazing lack of gill├óÔé¼Ôäós, stinkers or compound eye├óÔé¼Ôäós.

The EF has been running now, fleeing between the fast gulf between the Milky Way and Andromeda, for exactly twenty nine thousand years.

Ten years ago, the EF was waked up from a semi-stagnant peace to find they had reached Andromeda. Now they are in├óÔé¼┬ª for the fight of there lives.

Two Race├óÔé¼Ôäós, the Exodus Fleet and the Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós.

Bizarre Alien worlds: Mapmakers, use your imagination, NO TERRIN STYLE├óÔé¼ÔäóS!

Ridiculously powerful weapons: Think up some cool technobable here.

Plot line written by ME!:wink: (This is either a pro or a con, depending on how annoying you think I am)

What do ya think?
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SinbadEV
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Post by SinbadEV »

Grassroots RTS Powers Unite:

Forces that can be harnessed as weapons,

Kinetic:

Kinetic Wave Gun: Pushes Stuff and causes projectile damage, but also to the insides of stuff.

Kinetic Bomb: Thwumper: Goes off in the air and squishes stuff from the top

Gravity Pointer: Build 3 stations to "triangulate a target", anything withing the triangle formed by this can be cause to implode.

Gravity Mines: temporaily increases the "mass" of an area, slowing movement and doing slow but constant damage to anything trapped in it's field.

Magnetic:

Field disruptor/EMP: Used on a specifically engineered "mechanical only" attack with only physical/projectile weapons, disrupts the functioning of close ranged units.

Clumper Mine: magnetizes the metal in a group of units, these units will constantly be atracted to eachother but remain functional.

Phase(matter state):

Disruptor: Causes Atoms to randomly shift and ionize, causing enemies to simply become useless blobs of random goo.

Destabalizer: Causes Atoms to become unstable and will eventually go critical and then nuclear.

Shifter: Causes units to slip out of phase with the rest of the world (non moving stuff like ground will stop them because it's more "permanent" or something), will eventually come back into phase... useful as a weapon to temporarily "displace" defences, a defense to shift out factories and resource facilities, or as an attack to get behind enemy lines... also phasing projectiles can be shot "through" armor doing direct damage to the inards of units.

Atoomizer: Causes atoms to stop bonding together and into molecules and disapate.

Photonic:

Solid Light: "Highlighter": simply caused natural light to have more mass and begin pummeling a target.

Infra-red and Ultra-Violet "Lazers": Invisible and passing through shields targetting normal lazers.

Heat/Cold:

Flashpointer: Causes a target to uncontrollably absorb heat, freezing surrounding units and flash boiling even metal...
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

Sinbad, those are great gun├óÔé¼Ôäós for the EF! I really like the atomizer.


Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós are quite literally, silicon based life forms, and there crystalline structure├óÔé¼Ôäós make them slow, and hardy. They use organics, supported by technology. This is a over view of there unit├óÔé¼Ôäós, structures and weapons

Xeno Weapons:

Energy

Blaster: Basically a organically grown superconductor that builds charge until it unless a massive wave of energy, blasting enemy units to pieces.

Ray: Using naturally grown parabolic mirror├óÔé¼Ôäós to bounce a ray of bioluminescent light back and forth, adding power until it fire├óÔé¼Ôäós off a ray of intense heat. Most deadly Energy weapon, akin to a Annihilator, but it├óÔé¼Ôäós beam is invisible, making the weapon harder to spot.

Discord: Building up a incredible charge in there own body├óÔé¼Ôäós, this Xeno can blow themselves to smithereens. The weapon crate├óÔé¼Ôäós heat, and its nicknamed the ├óÔé¼┼ôHarbormaker├óÔé¼┬Ø by the EF.

Kinetic

Shard: A cannibalistic weapon that cut├óÔé¼Ôäós into eh Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós own body, creating lethal silicon shards. A cluster of Nano bot├óÔé¼Ôäós are inserted into the shard, sharpening the disc into a molecule thin edge. This allows the Shard to cut through almost any amour. Use├óÔé¼Ôäós metal and energy to fire.

Psionic (The Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós mind-structure is so inexplicably bizarre that the EF has not been able to figure out how the Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós accomplish these feat├óÔé¼Ôäós. It seam├óÔé¼Ôäós apparent that the Xeno body├óÔé¼Ôäós can focused energy wave├óÔé¼Ôäós, and there mind├óÔé¼Ôäós can direct them consciously)

Nuke: The Human├óÔé¼Ôäós dredged this archaic term up from there database├óÔé¼Ôäós. It seems fitting enough. A ancient Xeno, sitting in a nutrient bath, had a mind so advanced that it can create what has now become feared through out the EF. The Nuke is literally a globule of matter, held together by a unknown energy, and once it impacts on the ground, the energy feed├óÔé¼Ôäós into the plasma, compressing it into Nutronium. Nutronium is the densest matter in the known universe, and this ball of Nutronium will level a large area of the planet before falling apart, due to structural instability├óÔé¼Ôäós.

Shock: This Xeno weapon is a sniper rifle. Using a massive amount of energy, it fire├óÔé¼Ôäós a lethal burst of gamma radiation in a beam so focused it can burn a hole through an enemy. If the target survives, it├óÔé¼Ôäós nervous system will literally fall apart as sever radiation sickness take├óÔé¼Ôäós hold.

Psi Blast: Using anger built up by the war with the EF, a Xeno Psychic can literally liquefy a humanoid, reptiloid and intelligent walking treeoid brain.

Xeno Buildings, Lvl 1

Mine: This small structure burro├óÔé¼Ôäós into the natural deposit├óÔé¼Ôäós of mineral├óÔé¼Ôäós in the planet, and using sophisticated Xeno tech, transport├óÔé¼Ôäós the refined material the nearest storage facility.

Solar Power Plant: Using a plantlike symbiotic, a Xeno chooses to become one with this plant, and as such can generate power through photosynthesis. The Xeno protects the plant by brining up crystalline shields.

Nutrient Bath: A small bath, filled with nutritive fluids. Creates Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós, from Tankers to the small, agile Flyers. The Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós have two buildings for creating unit├óÔé¼Ôäós, but can only build slowly. They have less air craft and navel vehicle├óÔé¼Ôäós, and are limited tactically as such .They make up for it with there incredibly strong (and slow) infantry.

Xeno Tanks, lvl 1
PsiTanker: A small crystal that has adapted some of the EF├óÔé¼Ôäós ideas. Uses Psionic powers to levitate, Has a Blaster. Cheapish
PsiBuilder: A levitating builder unit
PsiScout: Cheap, fast, with a very weak blaster
PsiShard: Xeno version of Missile tanks. Use├óÔé¼Ôäós a tracker shard

Xeno Infantry, Lvl 1
Xeno: Basic Xeno infantry, more powerful then EF version. Uses a Shard, non tracking
Psicadet: A psychic in training, which can take centuries, given the Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós slow life time. Use├óÔé¼Ôäós a Psi Blast
Shard: The walking version of the PsiShard, without the tracking
Spy: The fastest Xeno in the game (which isn├óÔé¼Ôäót saying much) the Spy has one advantage over the EF scout. Psionic invisibility, which clouds the enemy├óÔé¼Ôäós minds. Can still be detected and shot by radar. Unarmed
Constructor: Infantry builder, capable of scaling mountain├óÔé¼Ôäós better then a Psibuilder.

Xeno Planes, Lvl 1
Flyer: Scout, fast, equipped with a Shard. What can I say?
Fighter: Using a Blaster and two shards├óÔé¼Ôäó, this plane stay├óÔé¼Ôäós in the air with the help of two motorized fan├óÔé¼Ôäós stolen from a EF 9340-X ├óÔé¼┼ôBrawler├óÔé¼┬Ø class gunship.
Bomber: Using a strap on rocket of Xeno design, the Bomber never really expects to return from combat. It has a Ray, and can be devastating when (if) it make├óÔé¼Ôäós a pass.
Floating Nutrient Bath: Using a energy net created by the Psychic building the ships, the nutrients are held in a concentrated area of the ocean. Builds the Xeno Ship├óÔé¼Ôäós.

Xeno Ships, Lvl 1
Ship: The Xeno all purpose ship is a jack of all trade├óÔé¼Ôäós, but the master of none. With a shard, blaster and Psionic radar, the Ship can be out maneuvered in any way by a specialized ship of the EF. But it is adaptable, and that has something going for it!
ShipBuilder: name say├óÔé¼Ôäós it all!

GeoPowerplant: Its called the Death by Ecstasy, by most Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós. The GeoPowerplant is a Xeno that has given its life willingly to supply power to the war machine required to fight the EF. The Ecstasy comes form the pure electricity that flow├óÔé¼Ôäós out of the Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós body, stimulating the pleasure compound of the Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós brain. The Xeno slowly becomes nothing more then a building, immobile and not interested in anything other then the ecstasy that flows through its body.

Blaster Tower: Named by the EF, who have learned to hate this squat crystal. Basically a Blaster linked to a power node, giving it unprecedented power.

Psiradar: A Psionic sits in this amplifying tower, drawing energy from a nutrient bath. It use├óÔé¼Ôäós its thoughts to detect the enemy, and single H.Q The Tower itself though├óÔé¼┬ª its pitifully weak and is blow apart by even small arm├óÔé¼Ôäós fire.

Wall: Well├óÔé¼┬ª aside from being cool, purple and crystal like, do I need to say anything else?

The Xeno├óÔé¼Ôäós never though of using the wind, which is a unpredictable as the flesh sack├óÔé¼Ôäós of the EF, so they never utilized wind power. Only the eternity of Fusion, Solar and Geological can give the mind of a Xeno peace. There entire battle plan involves getting a implacable wall of force├óÔé¼Ôäós moving towards the EF base, laying waste to the enemy, and finally leveling the enemy base as thoroughly as a tsunami.
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Guessmyname
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Post by Guessmyname »

Fine, but I really liked those models...

An idea for the xenos: They don't use buildings. Since units can build units now, the xenos having the ability to pack up and move is pretty good no?

Except metal extractors and geothermals, which will have to be buildings.
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Michilus_nimbus
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Post by Michilus_nimbus »

The Shofixti simply shock there head and subdued the human uprising├óÔé¼Ôäós with as little violence as possible.
Star Control, right?
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Post by zwzsg »

Guessmyname wrote:An idea for the xenos: They don't use buildings. Since units can build units now, the xenos having the ability to pack up and move is pretty good no?

Except metal extractors and geothermals, which will have to be buildings.
Some very special transport can move buildings in Spring. But I don't know what would happen if you drop a geo away from a vent.
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PauloMorfeo
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Re: OTAR-EVAMP Side Project

Post by PauloMorfeo »

Guessmyname wrote:Everyone seems to think that we need to redo all the TA content (I can't see why Atari would have a go at us: ...
As long as TA-Spring is non comercial, i don't really see how anyone could go at the game because it can be seen as any other modding for any other game...

No one complained about 3rd party units beeing made for TA, no one complained about the SYs making the TA Demo Recorder, no one complains about anyone making mods for UT, Quake, Half Life, so, i see no reason how anyone can complain about Spring (under these circumstances) without establishing a very dangerous precedent(?) that would mark all other future modding for all other games.

Remember the Make Something Unreal contest made for Atari's UT that even envolved a prize of 1,000,000 US $...
Such a thing over a dead game could kill all future modding.
Also, the spiritual successor for TA, Supreme Commander, the only one that could be harmed by TA-Spring, is not related to Atari which must be even glad about it.
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PauloMorfeo
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Re: OTAR-EVAMP Side Project

Post by PauloMorfeo »

Guessmyname wrote:... redo all the TA content
...
What I need help with:

Balancing ...
I need a unit list so that I don't miss anything
...
Comments und Critisisms please!
...
"und"? Are you german?

If enough people are really serious about it, i will help with those. (balancing, units list, coments and criticism and conceptual art)

Before anything else, there must be made (or copied from oTA) the architecture of each race (units list) and start conceptual art (hopefully not copies of SupCom screenshots).

About the criticism, i must say that the humanoid robots don't look good (as well as the walkers). Although they are diferent, they are very hard to distinguish from each other and they look the standard tall and slimm, very humanoid looking, robot. One of the core features of the TA unit set, as intended by Chris Taylor from the begining, was that each unit must be easily destinguishable from the others.
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
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Post by GrOuNd_ZeRo »

OTA is borderlining on abandonware, no one cares about it anymore, no one really spends much interest in it except us fans.

let us figure out a different game when they start making a fuss about it...
shnorb
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Post by shnorb »

GrOuNd_ZeRo wrote:OTA is borderlining on abandonware, no one cares about it anymore, no one really spends much interest in it except us fans.

let us figure out a different game when they start making a fuss about it...
which wont be for a while... there is a max of 20 users playing spring (actually alot compared to not long ago..) most of the time, which is definately not enough to annoy atari. especially since theyve got bigger things to worry about, like not going bankrupt from releasing so many shithouse games...
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SinbadEV
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Post by SinbadEV »

It's not a just a mod if you don't need the orriginal game to play, and that's what we're aiming for, having something SYs can put up with the engine that can be accessible to those who don't have the orriginal game at all.
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hrmph
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Post by hrmph »

Zoombie wrote:I agree with FizWizz. Humain's fighting alien's kindof gets tired after a while. Also Moo 1/2/3 all rocked, and i like 3 the best. Well first i hated it, then i kindof liked it then BAM! i was up till two playing it! Wird, huh.

Also i alway's though the idea that humainkind would even be CLOSE to a alien race's techlevel is a little improbeble. Its either A) We are FAR more advanced then they are, or B) We are WAY less advanced.

But i wasthinking that a TA Clone would be a terrible idea, rather some one should think up a detailed backround, plot ext and all the stuff required for a good RTS.... Ill be right back, but every one stay here. This is going to be great! 8)
Wow! Your the first person I've ever heard proclaim that they like MOO 3 :) I was a big fan of the first two, but from what I hear the third is horrible!
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

Its different, Moo III is, but its more of a "Empire Game" then the others. Less micromangament, more grand scale. So it take's some readjustment, then its really fun. Also Star Controll rocks, and i was... uhh... short of name's. <shifty glance> yeah. That's it.
Fine, but I really liked those models...

An idea for the xenos: They don't use buildings. Since units can build units now, the xenos having the ability to pack up and move is pretty good no?

Except metal extractors and geothermals, which will have to be buildings
Well the modle's you made a PERFECT for some EF unit's. The EF is a algorithem of race's, so they have less unifom style's, mroe like a collection of reacuring theam's. Those modle's are great for huminoid race's.

Also the Xeno's are, by vertue of being crystiline life form's, and as sutch, have very very very slow metabolisem's. So they are slower then the EF by a lot.

The EF, however, have lived a nomadic exsistence, for what... a mellenium? Also the Xeno's nutrient bath is a hole in the ground, filled witht he aformentioned nutriant's so it would be really really hard to move around. The Floting bath is likewize imobile, or as imobile as anything CAN be on the ociean.

And even IF TA Spring is hunky dory with the legal people, it would still be cool to have a RTS of our own.

Is it presumptiou's of me to assume that every one like's my plotline and backround?
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FizWizz
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Post by FizWizz »

MoO 3 rocked. I can only think of two reasons why anyone would dislike it, unless they simply cannot abide by turn-based games.

1.) It was friggin' DEEP. I think MoO 3 should have been the gold-standard of 'Empire' games. Sure you could micromanage, but it had the tools to let you automate practically everything other than fleet movement. The economy system, Planetary environment factors, espionage, and other stuff were excellent. I suspect that the diplomacy wasn't truly completed and polished when they released MoO 3, but it was fine.

2.) The combat was D0g$H!+. To be fair, it was. I think they might've been better off with a MoO 2 style combat, but in real-time or something close because otherwise, with the enormous armadas that can be built and the tediousness of blockading and bombarding planets, combat would very quickly take up all the gametime.

MoO 3 is an acquired taste. I think that really the only way you could like it right off would be if you had played the first 2, or the Civilization series and found them to be simply too small and simple. MoO 3 is grandiose, it's like comparing Total Annihilation to C&C: Red Alert.
Last edited by FizWizz on 24 Aug 2005, 01:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

You know what would be perfect? MOO II style space combat, in 3d! But keep MOOIII's ground combat and hammer it out a bit.

EDIT: Also the Diplomacy in MOO III rocked soo much! I love being in the galactic senate. Also the Three Arm Galaxy setting was soo cool! Hundread's of stars! And its in 3D TOO!. IT LOOKS SOO AWSOME!
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Guessmyname
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Post by Guessmyname »

Where can you get MOO III?
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