New Map - DesertSiege

[langtengerfi]

Maplink: http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1805

Hi everyone!

I'm new to mapmaking, and this is my first project :)
You probably notice the similarities to DeltaSiegeDry and not only in its name.
My first objective was to give a good alternative to DSD.
Other objectives:
- increase the value of an early t1 rush
- increase kbot usability
- decrease big bertha usability
- decrease the value of back ecoers

You're not surprised, all the metal are in the middle of the map, forcing you to rush as fast as you can.


Details about making the texture:
The seamless textures were created with genetica viewer.
I mixed a few of them in photoshop, to have a low contrast range image with high details. (that resulted the large map size)
Then I created the mix of these textures with SME texturescript. (thx for the editor Frostregen :) )
I added a baked shadow to the texture with 3dsmax.
Finally I added the metals to the texture with an opacity map created from the metalmap.

Known issues:
Somehow a few errors've (darker tiles) got into the final. It turned out to be an error in SME (Frostregen already fixed that).

I also want to thank KaiserJ for pushing me to finish the map and keep telling me that is going to be good :)

And thank you all, who play on it :)

Hm... I'd love to hear CONSTRUCTIVE comments that point out exact/concrete problems that I can deal with. Those comments that say do something totally different will be left without answer.

Thank you,
[Zde]Ptl / Mete / Langtengerfi

[Hoi]

Looks good, you seem to know what you're doing!

A bit off topic, but could you explain how to get good result with the render to texture option in max? If I do somethign like ambient occlusion I get a really ugly... thing (ask for a pic if you need it).

[Pxtl]

Looks very nice. I worry about econ being forced onto the lowlands where it is hard to defend - one of the nice features of DSD is how defendable the econ is... but I guess that's a feature you were looking to scrap.

My only worry is that it's going to be hard to keep track of which ramps are which (kbot vs veh)... but every BA map that includes kbots has this problem.

[langtengerfi]

Looks good, you seem to know what you're doing!

A bit off topic, but could you explain how to get good result with the render to texture option in max? If I do somethign like ambient occlusion I get a really ugly... thing (ask for a pic if you need it).

Hi thanks for the compliments :)
Unfortunately I can't help, I never used render to texture, I rendered the texture as a normal picture, using a simple camera and mental ray. I never tried render to texture.

[smoth]

I'd like a new version with some roads and flat areas for bases.

[langtengerfi]

Looks very nice. I worry about econ being forced onto the lowlands where it is hard to defend - one of the nice features of DSD is how defendable the econ is... but I guess that's a feature you were looking to scrap.

My only worry is that it's going to be hard to keep track of which ramps are which (kbot vs veh)... but every BA map that includes kbots has this problem.

I wanted to make it harder to get a strong economy at the back, so it's intentional.
The kbot ramps are very steep, I wonder if someone wants to send a tank on them :)
... but in the next version I'll add different texture for the kbot ramps, maybe that'll help.

[langtengerfi]

I'd like a new version with some roads and flat areas for bases.

Roads? That's a good idea, but I'm suck at drawing roads :) maybe if someone helps me out... (hm... Kaiser?:) he made StormSiege)
I think it's not impossible, I'll try that too.
But the flat areas for the bases are present, you can build almost everywhere, I cant add more than that :D

[smoth]

yeah I just wanted visual roads, I hate when people put speed boosts on the maps it is usually so strong that I just delete the map. It shouldn't be too hard to add them but I just wanted to throw that out there, too many maps are set like out in the middle of no where with no roads or reason to fight there.

[SirArtturi]

Looks good!
I like the texture and the layout, seems like interesting technique and methods to make such...

However I don't like the concept and heightmap is somehow annoying.
I understand your goal to make alternative for dsd, but so far every tryouts have failed more or less... It's the issue of delicate adjustment between porcyness and passability(etc), that dsd succeeds to please every noob and tryouts leave them cold.

I'd rather suggest you to make something different and not to copy dsd when you obviously have skills for it...

My belief is that your map wont be very popular, although it may be worthy of it...

People are just happy with their dsd

[smoth]

People are just happy with their dsd

at least it isn't speed metal.

[langtengerfi]

too many maps are set like out in the middle of no where with no roads or reason to fight there.

I like the road idea, so you'll have it definitely :)
I think I wont give more boost than 20%... I'm not sure if I'll give any.
Do you consider 20% much?

But you have quite a reason to fight for: metal and better positions :)

[smoth]

Many mappers seem to not understand this. There is a reason why area specific speed boosts are bad. The engine uses pathing based on costs, a faster pathing area is more valuable, meaning that the units will steer off to use that area to travel on, resulting in unwanted behaviors pissing off a lot of players.

[langtengerfi]

People are just happy with their dsd

Well, I'm one of the people, and the more I play on dsd, the more I feel that it could be better.

However I don't like the concept and heightmap is somehow annoying. I understand your goal to make alternative for dsd, but so far every tryouts have failed more or less... It's the issue of delicate adjustment between porcyness and passability(etc), that dsd succeeds to please every noob and tryouts leave them cold.

I don't know if I was clear, but I don't want to recreate dsd and obviously not for the noob players. I made it a lot harder to protect the main eco. There are a lot new entrances (especially for kbots) and it's a lot different, with a lot new features. My main target is good players, who like the dsd layout, but wants some extra in it.

I'd rather suggest you to make something different and not to copy dsd when you obviously have skills for it...

This was a little bit hars. I didn't copy it, it took me 3 weeks to do this. I had many drafts of the heightmap, the earlier ones were closer to dsd than this one. I think the next one'll be even more different, but I'm sure it'll be based on this one.

I think I'll watch back the replays I played on it, to check how it worked...

Well, Beherit said to me that getting a new map popular is a very hard thing, so I don't expect much. Anyways I hope some'll enjoy it and I keep working.

[langtengerfi]

...meaning that the units will steer off to use that area to travel on, resulting in unwanted behaviors pissing off a lot of players.

Hm... I get this one. I've got problems like that when my kbots were going around the bottom mid hill. Then I won't add speed boost to anywhere. (like now)

But I still think about adding some roads or dirty paths, I'm not sure.

Thx for the info!

[Frostregen]

First:
impressive map, especially the bubble-detail everywhere :)

Second:

Known issues:
Somehow a few errors (darker tiles) get into the final, don't blame me, I don't know how :)

This looks like an SME issue.
Some different tiles seem to generate the same Adler32 value, thus are treated as identical tiles.
I will think of something to prevent those collisions.

-Frostregen

[langtengerfi]

I will think of something to prevent those collisions.

Wow, thanks :D
I like the editor too much, I couldn't even imagine it could have errors :D
I'm so happy that it's not my fault :D
I hope you'll have the problem fixed soon :)

And thanks for checking in here :)

... and what do you mean about the "bubble-detail"? :D
OH! you mean the craters? :D
LoL, that's genetica :)
It comes with the 2000x2000 texture I used. They looked much more like a crater b4, but I mixed 2-3 textures into one to decrease the contrast level. I hope its not too bad... :)

I tried to create the map by an automatic process, I don't have that much patience to draw every little detail, like IceXuick had :D

I wonder if I can find better seamless textures in such a high resolution...

[SirArtturi]

I'd rather suggest you to make something different and not to copy dsd when you obviously have skills for it...

This was a little bit hars. I didn't copy it, it took me 3 weeks to do this. I had many drafts of the heightmap, the earlier ones were closer to dsd than this one. I think the next one'll be even more different, but I'm sure it'll be based on this one.

Well now when I think this back again, you are right, It's quite far from dsd, sorry if I blamed you from plagiarism
I understand your effort with heightmap(I myself make many drafts and use many days to this part too) and yet the heightmap seems good to me. However the concept isnt the most intriguing.
I think it's lacking some sort of simplicity and "straightforwardness"

[Gota]

A DSD clone?
Seriously..
There are many more templates.
Middle lake,sea combat with islands without metal,Different unique starting positions,circle start positions ofr team play...etc etc etc...Why not Try and make awesome maps with the many other designs possible?there are so many left vs right,kbot vehi maps..
Isn't it time to make maps which are different yet awesome?

Your map looks cool this is just a rent about the tons of tabula and DSD look alikes..

[KaiserJ]

hahaha you are too humble, wheres the "i like it, dont change a thing" option in the poll?

this is the sort of gameplay i had envisioned in stormsiege... certain areas are tempting to porc, metal is in difficult to defend areas, and above all, there are many ways to run a successful raid even after the game has reached a point of buildup.

i can somewhat agree with artturi, in that the map routes are very convoluted and varied; there is no obvious strategy for winning specific areas... makes for a bit of a slower start than DsD in that you have to consider the ridges and hills blocking your path... but then again, maybe that would make this map desirable by DsD fanatics, because it has more there to break up the gameplay, and more ways to use "sneaky" strategies... heh i specced a game of this last night when a weasel rush went right through an unguarded canyon and destroyed 2 bases about 10 minutes in :)

@ gota... you raise an interesting point... WHY is that particular type of map so popular? there obviously are many, many maps available, but only a few are played... my take on it is that BA is balanced well for this sort of gameplay... (and yes, im being mod biased here, just because that mod seems the most likely to revolve around maps like tab and DsD) it's defenitely food for thought in that respect... but at the same time, even though the dimensions are similar and at the most basic design level the idea is the same (porc the hills, fight in the valley) i personally feel this map deviates far enough from any of the other maps of the same theme to make it worthy of the many games i'm sure will be played on it.

*edit*

still @ gota... so many "clones" exist probably for the same reason that people love the *A mods! i'm sure we could get by with only one, but different people see different ways to improve them, and as they are worked on they deviate from the original and can be a lot of fun for their own sake :)

[Pxtl]

I think this breaks from the DSD stereotypes enough that it doesn't really count as a clone - it looks like there is some real new gameplay there.

But either way, the simple reason why DSD and Altored were so popular: BA is really hard to defend in. It's hard to tell _where_ to defend. These maps make that easy - there are chokepoints, and open flat land, and lots of clear little bases to start with. They're designed for team-games, and the gameplay is obvious.

I think that, deep down, most BA teamgame players really want Starcraft maps - that is, maps with tight bases containing lots of resources, flat land with defined ramps connecting various battlefield spaces, and lots and lots of chokepoints that are just wide enough to accommodate a decent-sized battleforce but small enough to be easy to defend.