Fog of War in Spring must always be shown on the game screen

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 17 Jul 2005, 14:50

Well, the title pretty much explains my opinion.

I think Spring needs some way to show areas covered by LOS, and areas obscured. I realise there is a hotkey activated function for this, which is useful, but it is not something which can be constantly played with, because it is basically ugly, and not something you can regularly play with.

Spring needs some way to deliniate the limits of your LOS, because it is a gameplay essential. It is not something I can check every now and then by hitting a key; it is something I need to know at every point in the game. This is something which every RTS that uses fog of war has realised.

There are two non-intrusive ways that I can think of to allow LOS distances to be a shown always to the player on the gamescreen, without being intrusive, ugly or obscuring.

The first is to slightly dither any map outside your unit's visual range. The level of dithering should be enough so that it is immediately obvious where your units can't see, but without obscuring any detail on the map. This can be done by greying that terrain slightly, or by making it slightly grainy (as in the +dither function in OTA).

The other way would be to have a thin coloured line which always shows the absolute extremes of your LOS. This line would not be a full circle unless a unit is compeletely on its own. Where unit LOS overlaps, you would find a lumpy ring around your base/attack force. Sort of like looking at the outside of a flower.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I think it should be attended too for the next version.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 17 Jul 2005, 15:32

let me guess, pressing l is too much micro? is it too much too cope with??? i mean it even shows the radar ranges as well as LoS (although not sonar for some reason)...i mean why is it so 'ugly' i have it on most of the time, its useful, like the f4 key.

Masse · Post by **Masse** » 17 Jul 2005, 20:15

man its ugly like the ugliest thing in world... i say we need good looking fog of war :)
but im not the man to do such a things so i will shut my mouth

RightField · Post by **RightField** » 17 Jul 2005, 22:30

It washes away shadows, and it's ugly as hell. Just take that darkness part from the fog, remove the green and red stuff and make it default. Can't be that hard can it?

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 17 Jul 2005, 23:15

100% agree with Zsinj.

Hang on, did I just say what I think I just said?

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 18 Jul 2005, 01:27

Agree with rightfield, it should be "+dither'esque"

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 18 Jul 2005, 04:41

That's the thing; most people have been forced into using the L key constantly, but that key wasn't meant to be on constantly, as can be seen from its rather unattractive and obscuring visuals. I think everything presented in the L key should be revised to be much less intrusive into the game, and more visually pleasing, while conveying the same information and then set to always on.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 18 Jul 2005, 06:36

That would be very nice, but i cant think of how to mark out radar, radar jamming and LOS all at the same time with out being a hidious obscuring visual graphic.

Gnomre · Post by **Gnomre** » 18 Jul 2005, 06:46

Just make radar, sonar, etc stay bound to 'L', but make LOS always on and less ugly...

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 18 Jul 2005, 06:52

YOUR A GENIUS!

shnorb · Post by **shnorb** » 18 Jul 2005, 07:52

would it be possible to have the "greyness" slowly get darker the further it moves from your los? i just sort of thought of it and wondered whether that would work out at all...

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 18 Jul 2005, 07:58

Wouldn't that just make it harder to tell where your los begins/ends?

Doomweaver · Post by **Doomweaver** » 18 Jul 2005, 10:56

Darkness doesn't look ugly as long as it is applied smoothly. i.e. war3.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 18 Jul 2005, 11:11

But it can obscure the map somewhat, and might cause trouble trying to see certain features on the ground. I think either a light tint ala +dither or a grey tinge, like default OTA is the way to go.

GrOuNd_ZeRo · Post by **GrOuNd_ZeRo** » 18 Jul 2005, 14:34

NO DITHERING!!! it's an ancient and crude way to simulate darkness!! not to mention it's processor intensive.

Have a darkness or even greyout OTA style before considdering dither.
As for the edges of the map, make them have darkness perpentually.

AF · Post by AF » 18 Jul 2005, 16:15

Warlord, you ahve been fustrated many a time with people resurrectign old threads by starting a new thread and arguing the point over again.

This is exactly what you have done. I myself in conjunction with aGorm started a poll with images showing examples, liger touted the benefits of volumetric fog, someone probably you zsinj, touted dithering, and I suggested that a translucent thin white line be placed on the boundary of LOS, that was meant to be neither intrusive nor invisible. The poll came out in favour fo my idea with volumetric fog in second place.

Those threads where made both before and after the forum was wiped quite a while ago.

Other classic threads of that era include spherical and donut maps, maps that carried on past the edge so you couldnt see the blue water, and maps that where infinitely large. To see the outcome of these discussions go back a few pages in the general discussion forum. Do not however start new threads arguing the same points that have already been made.

And I agree there that dithering should be relegated to the past.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 18 Jul 2005, 20:21

and i kept bringing up my cool static interferecne idea.
Recap: When your camera moves out of your los, static begins to clog the screen untill it is totaly staticed (exept for the interface, or course). Then when you move back into your LOS's the static dissapates.

This would be really cool if your scouting and an ambus shuddenly destroy's your scout. Then the screen would immideatly go all staticy and cool!

I got my idea from a crappy game called Machines. Clunky interface, but it had a FPS mode and a camera like TA Springs. BUT TA spring is down right better!

10053r · Post by **10053r** » 18 Jul 2005, 20:28

Recap: When your camera moves out of your los, static begins to clog the screen untill it is totaly staticed (exept for the interface, or course). Then when you move back into your LOS's the static dissapates.

This makes it difficult to plan new building, and navigate between islands of LOS. I've played games where they used this, and it pissed me off. I'd rather have the terrain start pulsing purple and green with blue polka-dots than deal with static fsking with my ability to see where I'm putting my forward gun emplacement...

AF · Post by AF » 18 Jul 2005, 20:31

That might be useful in soem instances but it ahs its downfalls.

For example your deep in enemy territory and your units are killed, you loose alls ight, and suddenly your screen is engulfed in static, you cant get back because you dont know where back is, it's all static.

A whiel later after frantic keypressing you get within range of your base whcih ahs been pummeled in your absence and you loose the game.......

Also there are those who are epilleptic, not to mention the necessary animation and effort to code static possibly being more so than a simple line, dithering, or just darkened terrain.

WeaZ · Post by **WeaZ** » 18 Jul 2005, 21:42

atlantai uum I know some games dont have ctrl+c or something like that but every game has a kay to get u back to something in ur base....
DOnt take me wrong I know exactly waht ur saying.... and ur completely right but if u cant get back to your base cause U get lost then... U deserve to be pummelled... In my opinion.... I still get ur point and right u are static is a bad idea.... plus to me it looks corny

Spring RTS Engine

Fog of War in Spring must always be shown on the game screen

Fog of War in Spring must always be shown on the game screen