Improve Co-op gameplay?

[Super Mario]

I know that players can share IDs so why not improve the Co-op gameplay for them? It would be like this:

The player who is the commander can only build buildings and units but can't control them

The second player can control the other groups of the attacking units and can enter into FPS mode (with improve camera and controls I might add.) and do strategic gameplay tactics like the ones in Battalion Wars 2.

This would require a lot of team work for them.


So do you think its good?

[REVENGE]

I know that players can share IDs so why not improve the Co-op gameplay for them? It would be like this:

The player who is the commander can only build buildings and units but can't control them

The second player can control the other groups of the attacking units and can enter into FPS mode (with improve camera and controls I might add.) and do strategic gameplay tactics like the ones in Battalion Wars 2.

This would require a lot of team work for them.


So do you think its good?

A very good suggestion, although FPS mode would always be considered frivolous at best. Implementation needs more tuning.

[Cremuss]

The player who is the commander can only build buildings and units but can't control them

... boring ?

[smoth]

I know that players can share IDs so why not improve the Co-op gameplay for them? It would be like this:

The player who is the commander can only build buildings and units but can't control them

The second player can control the other groups of the attacking units and can enter into FPS mode (with improve camera and controls I might add.) and do strategic gameplay tactics like the ones in Battalion Wars 2.

This would require a lot of team work for them.


So do you think its good?

Spring is not only ta.

[Super Mario]

The player who is the commander can only build buildings and units but can't control them

... boring ?

He can also build turrets and attack with his commander With Customizable upgrades! (Missile launcher, resource generator, just name a few )

[Super Mario]

I know that players can share IDs so why not improve the Co-op gameplay for them? It would be like this:

The player who is the commander can only build buildings and units but can't control them

The second player can control the other groups of the attacking units and can enter into FPS mode (with improve camera and controls I might add.) and do strategic gameplay tactics like the ones in Battalion Wars 2.

This would require a lot of team work for them.


So do you think its good?

Spring is not only ta.

I know that already, there aren't any games or mods that I know of, that can support Co-op extremely well.

[smoth]

You description is most vague. The initial post will only work for specific projects.

So, lets begin with fleshing out the issue.

What do you define as co-op?
What should co-op present in terms of an experience?
What is different from co-op and commander sharing?
What is different from co-op and team play?

[Super Mario]

You description is most vague. The initial post will only work for specific projects.

So, lets begin with fleshing out the issue.

What do you define as co-op?
What should co-op present in terms of an experience?
What is different from co-op and commander sharing?
What is different from co-op and team play?

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_gameplay
2.For those who love co-op (don't care about experience)
3.see first post
4.see first post

[smoth]

Have fun, I'll see you when you are willing to take others seriously.

[Super Mario]

Have fun, I'll see you when you are willing to take others seriously.

smoth what are you asking is a truck load of complications and descriptions over a single suggestion, it isn't rocket science to figure out what I was talking about. Even Revenge knows what I am talking about; can you?

[smoth]

I was trying the help you make a more direct and specific request. yours was not a good suggestion.

if you want an enemy to stomp with afriend you fight an ai or chicken ai. That already exists. I gave you benefit of a doubt, I have a good solid understanding of gameplay However, you do not know all the options before you here in the spring engine. Now, rather than take a chance and possibly insult you I asked some simple questions to see what you were really looking for. Which probably would have resulted in a more organized request. Instead I get a sarcastic reply.

[hoijui]

the idea of this coop seems to be:
the same coop we have now (com-sharing) but with added restrictions.

i play lots of com sharing games against the AI with a mate, and we never had the feeling that restrictions would make the coop experience any better. if you want one player to build up the base and handle the commander, and the other one do the rest, then just talk to your friend and say:
"Let me focus on the base, and you do the attacking"

only a sick mind would request more restrictions for its self.

and in general, Super Mario, this seems to be your style:
1. "I want X, someone do it!"
2. a spring dev sais, it is too much work, to complicated, not specified clear enough, makes or makes no sense for other reasons.
3. you think you know it better (plus optional insult of the spring dev), and obviously no spring dev cares about it anymore

... think again boy!
(hint: it is not a good tactic, if you really want X, but do not want to do anything for it, except some forum talking)

[Pressure Line]

and in general, Super Mario, this seems to be your style:

Act just like Gota/Basic/Yan, but with better spelling and syntax

fixt

[Super Mario]

the idea of this coop seems to be:
the same coop we have now (com-sharing) but with added restrictions.

i play lots of com sharing games against the AI with a mate, and we never had the feeling that restrictions would make the coop experience any better. if you want one player to build up the base and handle the commander, and the other one do the rest, then just talk to your friend and say:
"Let me focus on the base, and you do the attacking"

only a sick mind would request more restrictions for its self.

and in general, Super Mario, this seems to be your style:
1. "I want X, someone do it!"
2. a spring dev said, it is too much work, to complicated, not specified clear enough, makes or makes no sense for other reasons.
3. you think you know it better (plus optional insult of the spring dev), and obviously no spring dev cares about it anymore

... think again boy!
(hint: it is not a good tactic, if you really want X, but do not want to do anything for it, except some forum talking)

1. I only did that once or twice not 24/7 and besides this IS the Feature Request section, what do you expect?
2.That why I give video game examples when I'm talking about a certain gameplay feature. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qKxh_Yrkbg and I don't mind the complications.
3.No I do not think it better, it's just frustrating to explain the whole entire thing in detail, rather than give an main idea of what it going to be like(Which it's easier that way)

I had been expected that you guys tell me more ideas or suggestions to build on this idea or suggestion, but no.

I was trying the help you make a more direct and specific request. yours was not a good suggestion.

if you want an enemy to stomp with afriend you fight an ai or chicken ai. That already exists. I gave you benefit of a doubt, I have a good solid understanding of gameplay However, you do not know all the options before you here in the spring engine. Now, rather than take a chance and possibly insult you I asked some simple questions to see what you were really looking for. Which probably would have resulted in a more organized request. Instead I get a sarcastic reply.

Alright then, I apologize to you smoth

How about I re-explain this then:
A factory can build a certain group of units until the particular unit limit is reach and when some of the units is destroy the factory rebuild again to rebuild the unit that has been lost until the unit limit is reach again, if you want new units you have to gather technology pads or capture more factory's to increases unit limit. The commander is playable with FPS with better controls and a 3rd person camera and you can command other units during FPS mode. If you level up you can upgrade your commander with one Customizable weaponry for each level until you reach all your upgrades.
Example: The Unit limit for player one is
10 tanks
5 missile launchers
20 kbots
The unit limit for player two is
10 Missie kbots
10 ant air kbots
5 Rez-bots
The players have to Co-op each other in protecting and managing the army and the economy.
The share the same economy but manage different army's. They have to do all this during FPS mode. The FPS mode needs to be update to handle all this.(That's why it's in the feature requests section)

The aim of this is to balance on the independent and the dependent on the game. (In other words; mixing ID sharing and Team play)

In ID sharing you sometimes have a hard time on what to do in building or attacking, because the other player have an idea on what to do is different from yours; most of the time you two will struggle on the decision making process .

In Team play you're very independent and don't often really on your partner when it comes to army, economy, and it's isn't a recommendation when it comes to planing.

[smoth]

This would probably be implemented by a mod option to toggle it and lua to enforce it. I am not sure of which project would consider the option but maybe the ca devs might take it up. It would have to be done in lua because individual mods would have to alter the unit builds.

essentially you want 2 player gods game except one has to be the assassin and the other is be the commander. this can be done by a timer that at X time the assasin character spawns and is auto given to player 2 on the team. forgive the type-os, even sicker tonight. Anyway, it would very much depend on the mod devs and whether or not they are interested.

I may be wrong on the assasin/general team interpretation. Outside of lua this can be done as a HACKISH mutator. Here is what you could do. add a noncombat commander for the regular faction. Add a combat commader and steal the upgrade lua for him. ARM & CORE would be renamed to AGEN and CGEN respectively, add a new faction, AAS and CAS give them the combat commander that can build nothing. Now players can choose what they want. Here is the trick, they ally up. so you could combo it however you want, 2 assisn are even possible. Then have them start near one another and bam super happy fun time.

although the ai never misses but they would probably act odd when using the assasin com.

again, probably rife with spelling errors. I hope these help.

The main issue with the current proposal as an engine feature is that on a per project basis the thing need to change in an extremely drastic way. So you are sent to lua, I am not saying that to be dismissive, I am saying it because the rules would have to change greatly. However, if you can get a list together detailing...fuck cannot continue, head hurts too much.. the proposal is getting better. Break it down..

teams look like this
starting unit
-builds units and shit'
-once x units are built
-starting unit goes to player 2 on the team, he can only control starting unit.
-- starting unit can get upgrades
---define this! do you mean several optional upgrades, linear upgrades upgrade trees?
--what is starting unit dies?

Bear in mind I am not a lua guru nor am I guarentying that it will get done this way, but putting it together and asking if anyone is interested will help. I cannot continue good luck. Oh there is a good chance you may have to do it but the lua guys will at least help you out at bit. Esssh I gotta bail.

[Super Mario]

We need to improve the FPS mode though to make it all happen. The following features need to be added:

Improving the camera so it won't look so terrible on some units (the screen flashing badly due to the bad camera position)
ability to control units during FPS mode
Improving targeting systems with better Icons ( by pressing a certain button you track the unit that you aiming and it moves the camera for you)

Also smoth: the players share the same economy but they have their own specific units and army. I don't think there's any way to program the players in sharing economy without interfering with the other player units.

[Cremuss]

In my mind, FPS mode is useless cause it's an RTS engine There is some more important things to add/improve first.

[Gota]

Co op..Instead of making restrictions for com sharing add communication abilities to the ui...
WE can already draw and write and make markers...but sometimes it is just to long to expalin what u wanna do..
So we need a communication system for random players that dont use voice chatting..
Like in swat or rainbow six games...
A menu that you can trigger with your mouse that contains a few basic commands with a few subcategories.. a tree.
-land
attack here.
defend this.
comming to help.
-air
attack with gunships here.
Need aa support here.
Bomb this location.


and etc...
Or a unit pool...say you have a flok of fighters...now imagine you can add those fighters in some simple way to a usage pool where everyone of you team mates can command them..
Of course this is a bit complicated and some mechanics would have to be thought off but it is doable to some extant im sure to make it less confusing and complicated to play huge team games.

(other stuff can be possible like making an entire lab common property ...again youd have to add some restrctions and rules about the usage but im sure smart rules can bethought of to ease team play.

I mean come on...
so many years of thought and products by the gaming industry...
Time to move to some higher levels of control and all you can come up with is restricting unit usage in a com share game?

[Hoi]

Step 1: get a mic
Step 2: teamspeak
Step 3: ??
Step 4: Profit!

[hoijui]

+1 for the first part of your suggestion, Gota.
that should be easily doable with LUA. would be just a GUI which could trigger draw events or set markers (in its simplest form).

the second part, the more complicated stuff...
am not sure if i get what you mean. the usage pools you mention:
in general, each unit in the team belongs only to one of the players that control the team, and only if they put a unit into the shared pool, it can be controlled by the others aswell.
is that the idea?

Hoi:
as Gota said, even if you have a mic, your co player may not, and there is nothing you can do. also, you may not speak the same language, plus it can be hard to explain positions: "sent that unit you have there.. in the north west to where i fight, pls!"
"..you mean on the left? and to where? you fight on 3 fronts."
the idea has a right to exist even with voice communication.