Cash for developing/fixing/deploying SM3

[Forboding Angel]

Like Caydr, I am frustrated with the things that matter to me personally being the most neglected. In this case, SM3 mapping.

I am considering ponying up a large amount of cash for this feature to be done and implemented.

I don't particularly care for paying for community dev time (that is to say stuff that is for everyone instead of just myself), however, it needs to happen... badly. So, to that end... Anyone willing to do it?

Also, are any other community members willing to pitch in for said dev?

[Kloot]

JC explained pretty well why the SM3 code isn't being touched much:

To be honest I think it needs changes that only I can make. For others, it will be faster to make something new, maybe using parts of the code for geometry and/or shading.

So it's not a question of nobody being willing, just that the format is a dead end.

[AF]

Considering what happened the last tiem we had bounty patches I would recommend against it.

[Forboding Angel]

Lua? Something, anything, just please work on it /dispair

*Sigh* :-/

[Agon]

Why not a new format?
With skeleton animations and some more features which game developer wants.

[clumsy_culhane]

SM3 is a map format , not a model format?

[Hoi]

Why not a new format?
With skeleton animations and some more features which game developer wants.

sm3 is a map format:P, but if i could chose a new format, id chose a new script format first

[Masure]

I wouldn't care paying for map format deving from scratches.

I know dev is time. I'd like money could be the only motivation to find the time, it would be easier.

[Agon]

Why not a new format?
With skeleton animations and some more features which game developer wants.

sm3 is a map format:P, but if i could chose a new format, id chose a new script format first

Hups anyway new map format is good, too.

[smoth]

sm3 would be good. I'd put money up for a working one but developer time is more expensive then you think.

[Hoi]

Why not a new format?
With skeleton animations and some more features which game developer wants.

sm3 is a map format:P, but if i could chose a new format, id chose a new script format first

Hups anyway new map format is good, too.

any new format would be good:)

[Forboding Angel]

sm3 would be good. I'd put money up for a working one but developer time is more expensive then you think.

I was thinking in the area of about 500 bucks or a bit more (which is what I personally would be laying down for it, not counting any money that others wanted to chip in on it). Which tbh is prolly a bit lowish, but hey, 500 bucks is 500 bucks.

[dizekat]

I'll look at sm3. I like the idea, but theres one thing that I want to change:
Instead of using TDF text file, i want to make it Lua code that defines a table with nested tables etc. I think it would be both easier and more powerful.

In fact, I'm considering move to Lua based files in my own commercial software (from my custom very TDF-like format).

Also, one legal detail.
I'd want to be able to use parts of my code in my own commercial projects as well. So the code would be under BSD license, or if under GPL, i need to retain right to release code under other licenses (BSD). (it is allright for copyright owner to put same code under different license for other projects). 500 $ is tad low for something that will take tens hours of work, but if i can use some part of code myself as well, it is all right.

--------------
my site

[Satirik]

that idea is pretty bad ... what will other coder think about that ? someone would get cash to make less work than they did ?? wtf ? maybe every dev will ask for cash next ... so as smoth used to say:

DO NOT WANT

[Forboding Angel]

Don't you think I thought that though?

Geez dude, I understand the ramifications, but seriously, would it not be worth it to have the format available and working?

^^ not a hypothetical question...

I am still on the fence as to whether I should do it if someone is seriously interested in it, but what else are we supposed to do? Spring's mapping format is currently largely lacking when compared to commercial games and no one wants to touch it.

User had some lua he was doing to kinda allow us to hvae the both of best worlds, but we haven't heard a word since.

SO what happens? Oppose this on moral principles and risk it never getting done? Or go with the assumptions that in this case the ends justify the means?

Hell look at what I, smoth, lathan, nemo, the ca devs, and countless others have done to help the spring community. I can't really fathom getting paid to do it, but hell lets be realistic. Money == motivation in many cases. SO how do we as the content creators make it known that this is something that we REALLY want and TRULY care about?

Open source has one flaw, and things of this nature, are it.

Sak, you seem to like philosophical discussions, so lets philosophimacize You should know that I would never do anything to deliberately harm the spring community, including the people who work on it.

DO NOT WANT is unfortunately not accepted as a valid argument.


Something to add here... If even one spring dev got butthurt over this, that is cause for some potentially serious problems. If that were to happen then sm3 is immediately negated in terms of worth.

Another interesting question.,, DO we as content creators have any leverage over what happens in the development side of things? Or must we continually just be happy for what we get and keep out traps (relatively) shut?

[dizekat]

Forboding Angel:
So what do you think about using different format for the text file?
Plain LUA thats it. It would be almost same as TDF but instead of '[whatever]' it would have 'whatever=' , and the colors etc would be like {0.3, 0.3, 0.3}
Something like
map={
light={
GroundSpecularColor={0.3,0.3,0.3}
....
}
....
}
(first few lines from example on wiki page)
I dont know what is the current state of sm3 and if theres any maps that would have to be converted. However, i think it is reasonable to use LUA here. Eliminates need custom parser and custom tree, far more flexible, (i think) proper parse error reporting with line numbers.

[Peet]

that idea is pretty bad ... what will other coder think about that ? someone would get cash to make less work than they did ?? wtf ? maybe every dev will ask for cash next ... so as smoth used to say:

DO NOT WANT

Bounties for features/bugfixes aren't exactly uncommon or unheard of in open source communities.***

[FLOZi]

Forboding Angel:
So what do you think about using different format for the text file?
Plain LUA thats it. It would be almost same as TDF but instead of '[whatever]' it would have 'whatever=' , and the colors etc would be like {0.3, 0.3, 0.3}
Something like
map={
light={
GroundSpecularColor={0.3,0.3,0.3}
....
}
....
}
(first few lines from example on wiki page)
I dont know what is the current state of sm3 and if theres any maps that would have to be converted. However, i think it is reasonable to use LUA here. Eliminates need custom parser and custom tree, far more flexible, (i think) proper parse error reporting with line numbers.

The lua can load the lua tdf parser and retain both formats anyway (this has been done with almost every other instance of the TDF format in spring)

[trepan]

The LuaParser is actually being used for some of the
data in SM3 files (that which MapInfo.cpp parses). I
didn't bother finishing the job for the rest of the
data that's extracted by the files in rts/Map/SM3/.

[Neddie]

We need a new map format. Period. I don't have much to give, but if it were up to par I might.

The format may be a dead end, but what is a better alternative to it?