Earth Works

munch · Post by **munch** » 23 Jun 2005, 15:06

So I made a crater with a bunch of MRPCs and built an HLT inside it, and I realised... this is what we need instead of DT'd laser turrets, we need earth works around them.

I've noticed that terrain gets deformed around e.g. a tank when the tank gets hit by an incoming shell. Is there any reason why the terrain couldn't be deformed around an existing building (like an HLT)? I was thinking we could have a "digger" unit (or maybe it would be part of what con units could do) which could pile up earth around your LLTs/HLTs etc. It would work really well for MRPCs which you could countersink completely, and leave them in HT mode.

Alternatively I guess you could deform the terrain before you built the HLT/LLT? Either way, the underlying problem is how to deform the terrain. I haven't found a consistent way of doing it with plasma weapons- half the craters I created weren't flat enough at the bottom for building even an LLT on =( Mines don't seem to quite cut it either.

What do people think about the basic idea though?

Cheers

Munch

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 23 Jun 2005, 15:25

You can use the ''restore'' command and drag a small circle in a hole and stop ''restoring halfway true... I once blew up a big hole, then built a iland on it whit lotsa Contruktion planes.. (not in game offcourse)

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 24 Jun 2005, 05:31

Its take you people this long to realise that?

munch · Post by **munch** » 24 Jun 2005, 14:41

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra wrote:Its take you people this long to realise that?

Realise what? : That the ground is deformable? Or that DTs don't work so good in spring? Or that you can't currently use the deformable ground as an effective replacement for DTs?

What I'm trying to say is, we need a way of forming banks of earth around defensive buildings to protect them in the same way as DTs protected them in OTA. I'm suggesting that maybe Con Units could have a "Dig In" facility, where they will deform the terrain around the unit you select, in order to protect it.

What do people thing about that idea? (I guess it would mean adding another button to the orders menu)

Munch

AF · Post by AF » 24 Jun 2005, 14:44

Or aybe just use restore but with an extra button held.

Or you could just raise the area of many small circles surrounding the target building in question.

10053r · Post by **10053r** » 24 Jun 2005, 15:25

What I'm trying to say is, we need a way of forming banks of earth around defensive buildings to protect them in the same way as DTs protected them in OTA. I'm suggesting that maybe Con Units could have a "Dig In" facility, where they will deform the terrain around the unit you select, in order to protect it.

I like this idea, although I don't think we need a button for it. As soon as this feature was implemented, everyone would ALWAYS use it, so you might as well just make it part of the unit getting built.

All stationary buildings should get the earth around them raised to half the building's height br default. Factories should have openings in the earthworks at every exit.

AF · Post by AF » 24 Jun 2005, 15:31

*sorry for double post*

AF · Post by AF » 24 Jun 2005, 15:35

Ah, but this shouldnt be an automatic process. For example radar towers, anythign as suggested here would mean that radar range would drop dramatically to within the earthworks, how about aicraft plants? The adv aircraft plant has radar coverage which in some instances may eb useful so we might not want earthworks, hwoever earthworks would be a useful protection.

I think that dragon teeth ontop fo earthworks would eb a further improovment, and thus suggets that perhaps only the height of terrain udner DT is raised, providing greater power for DT and the option of using or not using the earthworks feature. I'm also thinking it would be easier to implement and could entail an extra tag for the FBI files should other units be needing this sort of protection.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 25 Jun 2005, 05:43

I also think that we should have a Earthworker. It would be able to lower, raise, create and destroy water. Lower and raise will make ditches (WHITH OUT water), while if you want to fill it, use the water tool. Raise will create walls, ext.

Giant earth walls would be fun to shoot LRPC'S against and whatch it slowly crumbe as shot after shot of plasma death smash into it. Units on the top of the wall can get blown off by a shot that grazes the top of the wall and blasts them overhead! A uinit blown off like this would fall towards the distant ground and explode in the distance.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 25 Jun 2005, 17:39

How about if the ground right around the DTs is protected ? Meaning that, until the DT is destroyed, nothing can deform the ground beneath it ? If the earthworks thing is implemented, it'd make sense to raise a wall and then reinforce it with DTs.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 25 Jun 2005, 17:53

placing DT's should raise the terrain a bit, that way the DT's are usefull again and no extra button is needed.

BlackLiger · Post by **BlackLiger** » 26 Jun 2005, 20:58

Zoombie wrote:I also think that we should have a Earthworker. It would be able to lower, raise, create and destroy water. Lower and raise will make ditches (WHITH OUT water), while if you want to fill it, use the water tool. Raise will create walls, ext.

Zombie, sorry man, but seriously, have you actually read any of the stuff on the code that was discussed? SJ and co already said the water height is locked. Its like in terragen, where you can merely set max water height and water appears anywhere below that height.

It would be nice to try and have instead of water being at X height, have it so it (using a 3d map editor w brushes to set basic terrain settings) can simple set that the water starts at X and flows continually from there.... But that would require supercomputer level processing, and untill we get those, I don't think it can be done.........

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 26 Jun 2005, 21:31

We could add a water map. That completly flat, except some areas where the hight changes, where it's vertical upp and then flat aging. The vertical ara would be like a wall, stoping ships from falling or climbing. But offcourse the hardness of the map should be big, unless you like ugly vertical water...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 26 Jun 2005, 22:20

Vertical water + some fancy spritework = waterfalls.

And hell knows we need waterfalls.

BlackLiger · Post by **BlackLiger** » 27 Jun 2005, 00:55

well, it could be something to look at. Hmmm. Looks like I found me a hobby

Sean Mirrsen · Post by **Sean Mirrsen** » 27 Jun 2005, 18:55

Actually, an initial water map + some fancy calculations relative to heightmap = very interesting possibilities for dynamic water.

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » 28 Jun 2005, 03:13

How about a special command, called the berming line.

Offering a customizable berm of variable height and width, any con unit can instantly or rapidly, erect a short, or tall berm of dirt that might be slim enough that it's an instant ridgeline, or wide enough to support MT's and Guardians. Pick a set of three standard height and width increments, each being about the width of a mine, and allow dragging, and rings, and that's all there is. In the same manner as OTA's manuever, fire, on/off, you have height, width, and plus/minus. A repeat command of the minus drops till it hit's the water table.

KiviGerbil · Post by **KiviGerbil** » 28 Jun 2005, 09:58

i had this in mind for a while.

if u want to do some terraforming, what u mostly want is level ground for factories and walls for defense.

what i suggest for walls is something like this

_
_| |_

a picture from the side, and then u simply set 2 points between witch the ground will be terraformed, resulting in a wall

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » 28 Jun 2005, 13:45

See the thing is, those are great, but they're too hard to get around. Imagine trying to get past with your own units. Most units can climb a 45 degree slope like I'm proposing, but can't do your vertical wall. The way I plan it, units are supposed to be able to cross with ease. If you don't want that, just build it wide enough, and DT, or HLT it. As for flat land, the on/off can simply become on/off/flat.

KiviGerbil · Post by **KiviGerbil** » 28 Jun 2005, 14:08

u may be right, it would be too hard to get through a wall like that.

u would need a terraformer to transform the wall down or a roach to blast it ... or a nuke

...

i actually might be too much of a problem, but if u make a base, usually u want to get out of it too, right?

here might come in handy a feature that makes other pieces of ground easier to blast. the terraformed land should be easy to blast, right? and the basic land next to the wall should be a more resistant, and thus exploding a roach or something next to the wall could tear it apart..

dunno if this all is worth it.. but the resistance factor of the map is something that is prolly needed anyway

edit: actually, there is this other thing i'm worried about. if u radically terraform the map, will the units know their ways around anymore? the paths are calculated for the untouched map....

Spring RTS Engine

Earth Works

Earth Works