TA Spring comes with all the TA units and art included. Wouldn't it be wise to keep those parts in a separate file, and perhaps distance yourself from it?
With the arcade game emulator MAME for instance they have Neo Geo compatability but they don't include the bios file needed to run the games. That's easily found on other sites. Just type it into google. But it's not available on the main MAME website so they aren't liable.
With the question of copyright infringement being raised by PC Gamer, a magazine with hundreds of thousands of users, you should really be looking at ways of protecting yourselves. It'd be a shame to see the project shut down by heavy handed threats from the money men at Atari.
Shouldn't Spring keep the copyrighted material separate?
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Good point a-Gorm, exept for the fact that a lot of people DONT own TA, but when iv showen it to them they have really liked it. And when i say "There is a BETTER version out, and its free" they say "WHERE WHERE WHERE!!!" So we should keep the TA stuff untill we are told NOT to. I mean they can take away the TA stuff, but they cant take away the engin! Springs engin is totaly seperat from TA and Atari dosent own anything about it! SO ITS ALL OURS! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
There has been a thread about this. And it pointed into kixxe's opinion. I'm thinking same, completely new game with new content would be P0p.
And spring engine is SY's and partly, people who has been contributed with it someway(writing code, giving ideas and opinions, helped friends...) so they can do anything they want with it. No-one can take it from us. Except few people who should be disposed anyway(only in america).
The content isn't but you can think it as placeholder graphics and design, they won't be there forever.
And spring engine is SY's and partly, people who has been contributed with it someway(writing code, giving ideas and opinions, helped friends...) so they can do anything they want with it. No-one can take it from us. Except few people who should be disposed anyway(only in america).
The content isn't but you can think it as placeholder graphics and design, they won't be there forever.
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el_muchacho
- Posts: 201
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:06
even discussing copyright problems with spring is, imo, stupid! as long as you use the ta content, you should own a copy of ta. but i think most people who use spring will have a copy anyway.
besides, eventually the ota units will be remodelled, with new sounds and new unit renders. this way the units will only be inspired by ta, and even then. if you scared of legal problems you can just play a mod. there are already some great ones out there.
also. the sy arent responsible for our actions, we are!
besides, eventually the ota units will be remodelled, with new sounds and new unit renders. this way the units will only be inspired by ta, and even then. if you scared of legal problems you can just play a mod. there are already some great ones out there.
also. the sy arent responsible for our actions, we are!
Obviously it'd be easier to just leave the copyrighted material in there but that would be illegal. Atari could shut this project down. Just as they could shut down MAME if they included MAME roms in the main program.
Noobs will find things more difficult if they can't get everything they need to get Spring running in one place. But it's a necessary step if Spring want to protect themselves from the lawyers.
If Spring just came with no copyrighted content then the lawyers could attack the other sites that host that content, but not the engine that runs the content.
It's all very well saying you should own the game before you download. But lots of people aren't going to. I don't care about it to be honest but I'd like to see Spring sidestepping any of these legal implications if they can avoid them. If they leave out the copyrighted stuff and have other sites host it then they won't get shut down. If they leave it included then that's a very real possibility.
Noobs will find things more difficult if they can't get everything they need to get Spring running in one place. But it's a necessary step if Spring want to protect themselves from the lawyers.
If Spring just came with no copyrighted content then the lawyers could attack the other sites that host that content, but not the engine that runs the content.
It's all very well saying you should own the game before you download. But lots of people aren't going to. I don't care about it to be honest but I'd like to see Spring sidestepping any of these legal implications if they can avoid them. If they leave out the copyrighted stuff and have other sites host it then they won't get shut down. If they leave it included then that's a very real possibility.
i dont think that atari will do anything at all about spring for a long time, if at all. this is because:
1. this wouldnt negatively effect ta sales at all, since they are no doubt already extremely low or non-existent. if anything, this could cause a small amount of people to actual go and buy the game. http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1504
if theyre giving them away for free, they musnt be selling too well...
2. if sy lays down the rules that you need to own a copy of ta if you use the ta content on spring then it is the users decision to go with, or against this. just look at kazaa. they got sued by god knows how many evil multinational corporations, but they eventually settled in court that the user is to blame and not the developers of the software. so if you dont own ta its your problem.
3. atari coming down on a small community of gamers such as ourselves would create a huge amount of bad publicity for them.
4. i think of the ta content in spring as being mainly temporary... there have already been many discussions about redoing all the ota models, and renders (and hopefully sounds and so forth).
5. majority of people that play and contribute to spring are already die hard ta fans, who would own the cd anyway.
if some real problems do actually occur a simple fix would be to, at the first run of spring, have it ask for the directory in which your totala executable is. once it has verified that you have the executable you can play from then on without worries.
either way, spring is an open source project. people can just keep working on it no matter what. there isnt a single thing they can do to stop us. muawahahahahha
please put these discussions to an end, and worry about more important issues, like getting this baby out of beta stage :p
1. this wouldnt negatively effect ta sales at all, since they are no doubt already extremely low or non-existent. if anything, this could cause a small amount of people to actual go and buy the game. http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1504
if theyre giving them away for free, they musnt be selling too well...
2. if sy lays down the rules that you need to own a copy of ta if you use the ta content on spring then it is the users decision to go with, or against this. just look at kazaa. they got sued by god knows how many evil multinational corporations, but they eventually settled in court that the user is to blame and not the developers of the software. so if you dont own ta its your problem.
3. atari coming down on a small community of gamers such as ourselves would create a huge amount of bad publicity for them.
4. i think of the ta content in spring as being mainly temporary... there have already been many discussions about redoing all the ota models, and renders (and hopefully sounds and so forth).
5. majority of people that play and contribute to spring are already die hard ta fans, who would own the cd anyway.
if some real problems do actually occur a simple fix would be to, at the first run of spring, have it ask for the directory in which your totala executable is. once it has verified that you have the executable you can play from then on without worries.
either way, spring is an open source project. people can just keep working on it no matter what. there isnt a single thing they can do to stop us. muawahahahahha
please put these discussions to an end, and worry about more important issues, like getting this baby out of beta stage :p
1. That doesn't matter. Nintendo regularly shut down websites for hosting their game roms. Most of them haven't been available for sale for 20 years.
2. Kazaa didn't put copyrighted material on their website. It's just a program for sharing files on the internet just like http or ftp. If they had had copyrighted material on their website those companies would have been successful in suing them. but the fact is there are file sharing applications built into msn chat, irc. You can't sue the people for something like that. Just like you can't sue SY for making an engine that runs TA content.
3. Blizzard have shut down tons of fan game projects. Ditto Lucas Arts. They still have huge followings of dedicated fans. It hardly harmed them at all.
4. Even if they redo the models they will still have the same unit names and such. Still copyright violation.
5. Majority, but not all.
You guys are being very dismissive of this but it's important. You have to protect yourself against this stuff. Blizzard and Lucas Arts have shut down loads of similar projects. I've no doubt Atari will try the same when they hear about this.
The totala.exe should be required to run the game. All the TA content should be separate. Then people can choose to just take it off their TA CD or get it by other means. It would just remove liablity from the Spring project. Atari could go around shutting down websites that host the TA stuff, but they wouldn't be able to touch Spring. Just as they can't touch MAME or Kazaa.
I'll stress again that I don't give a shit about copyright violation. I couldn't care less if people didn't pay Atari for their copies of TA. None of the people involved in the making of the game are going to get any money out of it at this stage. But I'd like to see the SY's covering their asses. I'd hate to see them get landed with cease and desist orders.
2. Kazaa didn't put copyrighted material on their website. It's just a program for sharing files on the internet just like http or ftp. If they had had copyrighted material on their website those companies would have been successful in suing them. but the fact is there are file sharing applications built into msn chat, irc. You can't sue the people for something like that. Just like you can't sue SY for making an engine that runs TA content.
3. Blizzard have shut down tons of fan game projects. Ditto Lucas Arts. They still have huge followings of dedicated fans. It hardly harmed them at all.
4. Even if they redo the models they will still have the same unit names and such. Still copyright violation.
5. Majority, but not all.
You guys are being very dismissive of this but it's important. You have to protect yourself against this stuff. Blizzard and Lucas Arts have shut down loads of similar projects. I've no doubt Atari will try the same when they hear about this.
The totala.exe should be required to run the game. All the TA content should be separate. Then people can choose to just take it off their TA CD or get it by other means. It would just remove liablity from the Spring project. Atari could go around shutting down websites that host the TA stuff, but they wouldn't be able to touch Spring. Just as they can't touch MAME or Kazaa.
I'll stress again that I don't give a shit about copyright violation. I couldn't care less if people didn't pay Atari for their copies of TA. None of the people involved in the making of the game are going to get any money out of it at this stage. But I'd like to see the SY's covering their asses. I'd hate to see them get landed with cease and desist orders.
What about remaking XTA?
XTA - ta + something cathcy = New game?
Redo models (who are pretty remodeld alredy) new unit names, make pewees blue or something and volia. Not able to sue game!
But your thinking** but krogoths should be called krogoths, not Gkoid'' well this is just the MOD that comes whit TA:SPRING. Then they download something other like ota or ''real'' xta or whatever...
I dont know... what do you think....
XTA - ta + something cathcy = New game?
Redo models (who are pretty remodeld alredy) new unit names, make pewees blue or something and volia. Not able to sue game!
But your thinking** but krogoths should be called krogoths, not Gkoid'' well this is just the MOD that comes whit TA:SPRING. Then they download something other like ota or ''real'' xta or whatever...
I dont know... what do you think....
No, you see, they haven't actully done anything illegal. It states clearly thet you must own TA to use this. Hence therfor you could argue that you are infact bosting sales of TA, because to use this you must own TA. They can't be liable for teh actions of other people who don't go and buy TA befor they play this. Thats just stupid.
However, It would still be a good idea to make a totaly different set of armies, to play as default. And just say if you want you can use it to play TA...
They cant actully stop teh SY's distrbuting a 3D engin called spring, all they can do is stop them giving the TA content with it.
aGorm
However, It would still be a good idea to make a totaly different set of armies, to play as default. And just say if you want you can use it to play TA...
They cant actully stop teh SY's distrbuting a 3D engin called spring, all they can do is stop them giving the TA content with it.
aGorm
If we're talking legal threats here, lets get a bit more serious- any new content would be to made entirely in the new format. HPI belongs to Humongous, and every .fbi file (meaning every CD unit) must have the line
"Copyright=Copyright 1997 Humongous Entertainment. All rights reserved.;"
basically saying that any unit and anything associated to that unit belongs to them. It may sound farfetched, but there's the possibility that if legal issues do arise, Humongous might try and claim ownership over potentially every third party unit and map. Again, its farfetched, but possible. Mynn, etc are all under that jurisdiction.
Basically, we're at whatever legal juggernaught's mercy until the SYs can release their new unit format.
"Copyright=Copyright 1997 Humongous Entertainment. All rights reserved.;"
basically saying that any unit and anything associated to that unit belongs to them. It may sound farfetched, but there's the possibility that if legal issues do arise, Humongous might try and claim ownership over potentially every third party unit and map. Again, its farfetched, but possible. Mynn, etc are all under that jurisdiction.
Basically, we're at whatever legal juggernaught's mercy until the SYs can release their new unit format.
Why dont we worry about it if (when) it happens? I think if we just respond nicly and say "Okay we will take out the TA stuff" then atari probebly wont complain all that much. Then we just need to make a NEW game.... perhaps just have the engian around and let people make their mods for it so spring becomes a million games, rather then just one.
If we can get a mod switcher built into the Server (or perhaps ORGINIZE the mod progects with each other so we can have a few big one's whitch a lot of people like. Then if some one has an idea they can forum a team, make it then add a "tab" to the server so people can join in on there games.
Or the SY's could add a CD check that looks for a TA CD... that would work, wouldent it?
If we can get a mod switcher built into the Server (or perhaps ORGINIZE the mod progects with each other so we can have a few big one's whitch a lot of people like. Then if some one has an idea they can forum a team, make it then add a "tab" to the server so people can join in on there games.
Or the SY's could add a CD check that looks for a TA CD... that would work, wouldent it?
*thinks of people who lost cd or scratched cd who sue no-cd patch*
In the mean time I suggest we add 3rd party races to a second installer and use that as an option for those who wish not to break the law if they haven't a TA cd. I heard buggi was playing with the lost tribe?
As for the fbi, those values are arbitrary and generic and can ebs aid about units in Warcraft or C&C generals to say the least. Remove the copyright bit and change the extensiona nd they loose most if nto all control or ownershipas it is a spring file not a TA file then.
Or you could do what Buggi suggested and use xml.
Nintendo have to challenge the copyright issue otherwise their rights to the material are rboguht into question. Remember these are games that could just as easily be snatched by rivals in this sort of event if nintendo is not seen to protect its rights, rival companies which would release games from nintendo to make a profit. You've sene old games be released such as asteroids and space invaders be relaunched and sell thousands if not millions.1. That doesn't matter. Nintendo regularly shut down websites for hosting their game roms. Most of them haven't been available for sale for 20 years.
In the mean time I suggest we add 3rd party races to a second installer and use that as an option for those who wish not to break the law if they haven't a TA cd. I heard buggi was playing with the lost tribe?
As for the fbi, those values are arbitrary and generic and can ebs aid about units in Warcraft or C&C generals to say the least. Remove the copyright bit and change the extensiona nd they loose most if nto all control or ownershipas it is a spring file not a TA file then.
Or you could do what Buggi suggested and use xml.
