#main Topic and CA updater

[NOiZE]

[13:15:00] * Now talking in #main
[13:15:00] * Topic is 'You can download mods and maps here:
[13:15:00] - from JJ: http://spring.jobjol.nl
[13:15:00] - from Sefidel: http://www.springplayersclub.com/
[13:15:00] - from AF: http://www.darkstars.co.uk/downloads/
[13:15:00] - from M_A_D: http://www.tasdownloads.com/
[13:15:00] - from BLC: http://spring-portal.com
[13:15:00] - from FA: http://evolutionrts.info/maps/
[13:15:00] If you are desynced, get otacontent and place it into base folder in spring: http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=860
[13:15:00] Downloader for any mod or map (also auto gets maps for joined game): http://caspring.org/wiki/CaUpdater (only way to get Complete Annihilation mod)
[13:15:00] Get detailed info about mods: http://modinfo.adune.nl
[13:15:00] Replays, get and upload here: http://replays.adune.nl'
[13:15:00] * Set by ChanServ on apr 1 at 08:52 PM

IMO the CA-updater should be uploaded to the download sites, so they dont get any special treatment over other mods, E&E,Evo,Fibre,PURE,KP and all the other mods i didn't mention!

Also as the CAupdater can also fetch other maps/mods it should be renamed, as the name doesnt cover the load atm. Something like SpringContentUpdater...

[MelTraX]

Since this kinda fits the topic: I made a new !find command for MelBot last week..

I don't really care if anyone uses it besides me but imo it's easier than to search on all the sites and it even searches one of those UF backups which link to aegis server (I think)..

If you want to, feel free to include it into the #main topic (I could do it myself but I guess I'm biased) and give me feedback if you think it needs improving..

[Vadi]

IMO the CA-updater should be uploaded to the download sites, so they dont get any special treatment over other mods, E&E,Evo,Fibre,PURE,KP and all the other mods i didn't mention!

Also as the CAupdater can also fetch other maps/mods it should be renamed, as the name doesnt cover the load atm. Something like SpringContentUpdater...

Now that's quite bold! They did the hard work, but they shouldn't get "special treatment" and their program should be renamed to a generic name. Will be interesting to see what CA people reply with...

@ MelTraX: The jobjol website already does this though. Just one of the reasons why it works :)

[KingRaptor]

I just noticed the "only way to get CA" part isn't even accurate anymore anyway, as we now upload stable releases to regular sites.

[LordMatt]

IMO the CA-updater should be uploaded to the download sites, so they dont get any special treatment over other mods, E&E,Evo,Fibre,PURE,KP and all the other mods i didn't mention!

Also as the CAupdater can also fetch other maps/mods it should be renamed, as the name doesnt cover the load atm. Something like SpringContentUpdater...

I said this a week ago or so but Licho refused to change it.

Now that's quite bold! They did the hard work, but they shouldn't get "special treatment" and their program should be renamed to a generic name. Will be interesting to see what CA people reply with...

If they want their software included with spring by default, that's what they will have to do. We don't call spring 'XTA gaming engine' for a reason.

[Vadi]

The thing is, *they* made it. Nobody else in Spring did. Did XTA make Spring from scratch?

[NOiZE]

The thing is, *they* made it. Nobody else in Spring did. Did XTA make Spring from scratch?

Well actually they did O_o

[Vadi]

I see, thanks

[SwiftSpear]

Well... that's a bit of an oversimplification. The guys who made the first XTA builds also are the guys who made spring. The current XTA project isn't being worked on at all by those guys any more, and most of them aren't doing any real development work on spring any more either.

Currently, both XTA and spring have been picked up by different groups in the community. No one who has anything to do with XTA does much, if any, work for the spring project any more.

Not to take anything away from XTA, it's a great mod with a great history. It just doesn't really make sense having it as the default mod any more, expecially, when as a project, we really want to showcase our non-TA content more.

[tombom]

Not to take anything away from XTA, it's a great mod with a great history. It just doesn't really make sense having it as the default mod any more, expecially, when as a project, we really want to showcase our non-TA content more.

What do you mean, "as a project"?

[Otherside]

lol at the BA creator making this thread

the downloaders main purpose was to download CA it shudnt be renamed cos then people will be confused about were to get CA but its equally as useful a map/mod download program and topic worthy

if BA content dev's did sumthing useful like making a p2p map/mod download system (people are downloading BA from it u shud be thankful)
ud get in the topic

but ur not doing that so i think its perfectly fine

i dont actwally understand why it bothers people so much ok everything shud be fair. But work should be rewarded and licho put alot of hardwork into the downloader which was made for CA in the first place. Also CA is a big mod downloading from a site every week can be a hassle so the downloader is kinda neccesary

I would not have a problem with any other mod having a downloader on the topic if it helped the community in other ways im sure it balances out.

if CA would have never been made ? u might not have even addeed the p2p program in the first place to be thankful

[LordMatt]

lol at a CA fanboi posting garbage. If the authors of the tool want it to be included by default, it will need to be named generically, if not, that is their choice too.

[Otherside]

lol at a CA fanboi posting garbage. If the authors of the tool want it to be included by default, it will need to be named generically, if not, that is their choice too.

if BA had a downloader id have no problem if any other mod had a downloader i wudnt have a problem its not just cos its CA

i can say BA dev is nerdraging cos CA is stealing his pie ... but i havent

[LordMatt]

wel theirs more mods than CA and BA duh lol its not fair to them either

[Otherside]

tbh id rather the downloader being lobby integrated and all mods use it but that hasnt happened yet

so then its fair for all

[[Krogoth86]]

Well as you now can download CA from regular sites too I think as long as the updater is kind of a branded piece of software it should be removed from the initial listing. Wasn't it going to be integrated into springlobby anyway?

I would not have a problem with any other mod having a downloader on the topic if it helped the community in other ways im sure it balances out.

I think it's not about the CAUpdater itself but you have to agree that putting it there as Spring's P2P downloader you really have created something like an Adware...

[Vadi]

SpringLobby is getting the http & p2p download functionality too.

But AFAIK it's Tasclient that's in the windows installer. And that thing doesn't even have single player mode...

[Licho]

Seriously, what bothers you? Is your problem emotional or rational?

If its emotional, sorry I cant help you.

If its rational, try to explain what the problem is, how is it damaging for community or individuals.

* Does it bother you that its linked from topic?
Well downloader is just another way to access maps and mods.
Since its using all listed websites as download mirrors and falls back to torrents for very rare map, and can automatically download maps for currently joined game or for all currently open games, I think its the most convenient way to get maps atm.

So it should definitely be listed there.
Downloder has at least 1000 users - 1000 users downloaded ca past week using it, and in polls 25% indicate they dont play CA - so some 250-333 are using downloader just for maps during past week.

* Does it bother you that its called CaDownloader?
Cadownloader evolved slowly from software originally designed to update CA only. It has CA poll, CA download stats etc.
I dont think it would be fair to rename it to springdownloader yet (I would be accused of CA getting special treatment in springdownloader
Also there are some technical problems while its not easy to rename it atm (self-updating for example).

Yes, plan is to transform it to generic downloader with pluggable mod-centric tabs, but it takes time and we are making sure downloader runs on both linux and windows seemlessly first.
Its open source, so feel free helping with this goal.

* Does it bother you that Complete Annihilation mod is mentioned in topic?
People are constantly asking "where to get complete annihilation". I added that information to explain that this is the way to go.
Its not enough to upload downloader to those sites for several reason:

- link explains information about installation and is actually pointing to 3 different downloaders (cadownloader for .net, python downloader and svn based downloader)

- downloader is work in progress and constantly updates. While it can self-update, some versions can be buggy or cause unpleasant operations (like mod rehashing). Its always best for people to get the latest from ca site.

- some sites dont allow other formats than sd7/sdz in mods

- experiences show that people are confused by "exe" being in mods. They put it to mods folder, (which cause spring/downloader to crash), they dont realize they have to run it, they dont know they need to install microsoft .net framework etc.
We had downloader on unknown files all the time and it caused way too many problems because people were simply not reading installation instructions there or clicking to "home site".



So now tell me, who gets hurt? Is it such a problem that fewer newbies are asking where to get CA? How can that line be so damaging compared to benefits it brings (which I tried to explain).

If your problem is emotional, perhaps I can try to help you too.. do you hate me? Do you hate CA? Do you feel threatened by something? Just express yourself it helps.

Seriously I dont believe you that you are really concerned about unfair treatment. There is no "treatment". I have rational reasons to put link there. Had evo RTS team (which has own downloader) asked me to add it there for similar reason, I would do it without any question.

[Otherside]

+1 to licho's post it dusnt bother any1 on the forums its just helping new people all the hate is coming from BA fanboi's/devs

[[Krogoth86]]

@Licho:
Well if I understood it correctly it's about what should be in that initial info when logging in and about the CA branding...

Cadownloader evolved slowly from software originally designed to update CA only. It has CA poll, CA download stats etc.
I dont think it would be fair to rename it to springdownloader yet (I would be accused of CA getting special treatment in springdownloader

Imo especially the last part is what it's all about:
The functionality of a p2p torrent download system and all the other great features it offers have no relation to the CA Updater itself. So you now may ask why this was integrated into the CA Updater at all rather than creating a neutral programme on its own. This is what imo makes the decision to not list it in #main possible at all as all other sources are more or less neutral alternatives while the CA Updater has its CA branding. As the #main channel imo has to be neutral the CA Updater shouldn't be listed there...

I as a matter of fact don't really mind it being there but while having a closer look it shouldn't be there in a matter of fairness which just is about having no mod advertisment in #main which isn't new but something that was made public for several times (at least I remember some topics here saying so)...

People are constantly asking "where to get complete annihilation". I added that information to explain that this is the way to go.

Well I now want to be upfront with you: I never understood this argument so maybe you explain it to me. To my mind this situation was 100% self-made with the long-time refusal to upload the stable releases to the common download sources. There was no real reason for not doing so as it worked and still works perfectly fine for all the other mods...

So imo you sort of artificially created this constant demand for asking for the CA download source. At this point there now also comes in a rather dangerous point which I don't want to omit right now. It may just be a matter of my perception but I'll describe for you what often comes to my mind when I read your postings about this topic:

I very often have the impression that all this updater and lobby stuff around CA has one goal in mind: I'd call it "aggressive marketing / advertising". You refuse to upload your mod to the common sources to justify its mentioning in the welcome posting when logging in so every single person has this link present whenever he gets online. Not only that - now there also is the integration of a great p2p/torrent/download capability that no other piece of software for Spring offers yet into the updater. Especially with the above perception it's not hard to add two and two together and so you can easily come to the conclusion that this perfectly lines up with the inital assumption of the aggressive advertising:

It justifies even more the presence of a link for the updater in the welcome posting as it now really is a download source like all the other enlisted entries. In terms of advertising it has become way more effective now though because it doesn't just have the "CA" in the file name but you also get asked if you want to join the #ca channel automatically, you start on the CA relevant tab and are faced with CA comics, logos and links 24/7 when using this tool. You can't do much more in terms of advertising...

The third thing that lines up with this "advertising conspiracy theory" is the refusal to just upload the CA Updater itself to the common sites. It totally would become a tool only for those who want to get the test releases rather than being perceived as a good download utility which would completely ruin all the advertisement ambitions...

Now to make this clear I don't want impute you all of having this as the original purpose of all this but just go ahead and have a look at this topic with the given perception of the situation and re-evaluate again what is asked for here and even more why it is asked. I also don't know if others have the same perception tendencies but when reading through all those "whining" of what the evil CA men did say in #main during the last few days it conforms with the requests made (not just in this topic) so there might be some mutuality...