Would it be possible (or is it already??) to alow units in spring to have a "Unit cost". If that doesnt make sence think of warcraft or starcraft (aGorm dodges hail of bullets....) where things like tanks/ogers count as several men in terms of units taken up.
Why?
Because in the mod Im making (which admitadly may never happen but hay, this is a usefull feature anyway) One side will have men and tanks and things, but the other sides basic units will be harder things like cyborgs (havent ironedt hta out yet...). However if both people then built to teh unit limit the side with the cyborgs wopuld trash the humans as every cyborg would take out several men.
With the above system the cyborg side would not be able to build as many men as the human player so balance would be restored.
If this is already in somewhere please tell me!
aGorm
Units Limit Costs
Moderator: Moderators
TA is not SC.
Please go play another RTS. Go make a mod for WarcraftIII or Dawn of War or whatever, but don't try to change Spring to make it conform to every unbearably limited Blizzard-like RTS that are rehash of the ancient WC with only the graphism changed because I HATE THEM EXACTLY FOR THAT!!!!
Please go play another RTS. Go make a mod for WarcraftIII or Dawn of War or whatever, but don't try to change Spring to make it conform to every unbearably limited Blizzard-like RTS that are rehash of the ancient WC with only the graphism changed because I HATE THEM EXACTLY FOR THAT!!!!
zwzsg, you can go and *&^% yourself. What a stupid atitude. Starcraft and warcraft were examples, I never said I was rehashing them.
What I wanted was only for the sake of balanceing the sides. What would you like me to do insted? (Other than die...)
I mean, if one side has more powerfull units as basic than the other what the hell can you do? Sure they cost more but later in the game what hgappens to the poor sucker with the weeker units, when he hits his unit limit? And the other guy still has an equal army in power but is only half way to the unit limit? THAT POOR GUY LOSSES. All I wanted was to be able to balance it, but seeing as that offends you so much, Please suggest a way I can balance it with out making it to "Warcraft Like"
(not that it would be, seeing as the resorce structure would be totaly different, as would the units and the ideas behind them)
aGorm
:EDIT: Oh and I would poke around in the code, but seeing as the engin isn't finshed and how it would probablie not just be somthing Id want, I though it would be an idea just to suggest it as a extra feature for those that want it.
P.S Sorry for the Being angry but that sort of reply pisses me off.
What I wanted was only for the sake of balanceing the sides. What would you like me to do insted? (Other than die...)
I mean, if one side has more powerfull units as basic than the other what the hell can you do? Sure they cost more but later in the game what hgappens to the poor sucker with the weeker units, when he hits his unit limit? And the other guy still has an equal army in power but is only half way to the unit limit? THAT POOR GUY LOSSES. All I wanted was to be able to balance it, but seeing as that offends you so much, Please suggest a way I can balance it with out making it to "Warcraft Like"
(not that it would be, seeing as the resorce structure would be totaly different, as would the units and the ideas behind them)
aGorm
:EDIT: Oh and I would poke around in the code, but seeing as the engin isn't finshed and how it would probablie not just be somthing Id want, I though it would be an idea just to suggest it as a extra feature for those that want it.
P.S Sorry for the Being angry but that sort of reply pisses me off.
aGorm, you CAN use the cost though. Then, to make sure neither side hits their unit limit, make the resource gathering force expansion even more than TA does. If they are forced to fight early and often for resources, attrition will make both sides not hit the unit limit. The unit limit should be regarded as a way to make the game playable on real computers that will be raised every time the average computer gets faster. It is an artificial limitation we only have because we must. In a decade, when computers are around 50 times faster, we will have a 25000 unit limit. Someone better get started on the stream processor massively parallel version of spring, though... 
I just like simple sulutions to problems.SinbadEV wrote:That's not an answer, that's a advertisement for your own narrow mindedness...
...
the poor player always looses to the rich guy (isn't that teh point of fighting for resorces)
The "weak" player just have to go for outproducing his enemy and killing him before he gets to strong...
so i think unit cost and production time would solve most of the problem if balanced carefully.
Man, why does the other side of this argument seem to piss me off so much... Unit limits as wc and sc does it with the "you need to build 100 of these buildings to be able to do anything" is really annoying, and should not be duplicated... and you are right, your solution is simple, it's infuriatingly simple and does nothing to actually solve the issue... I propose a complicated solution that will likely piss even more people off, but I'm feeling mean today... and actually come to think of it, it's a good idea...
Cyborg units, including factories, metal extractors, etc will all draw rediculously high energy, and there power-plants will be very small (LLT sized or smaller) and produce almost no energy. So in order for your Cyborgs to move/attack/expand they would need like 4 powerplants each. so you would have 1 useable unit, and 4 power-plants for every 5 useable units on the human team.
Cyborg units, including factories, metal extractors, etc will all draw rediculously high energy, and there power-plants will be very small (LLT sized or smaller) and produce almost no energy. So in order for your Cyborgs to move/attack/expand they would need like 4 powerplants each. so you would have 1 useable unit, and 4 power-plants for every 5 useable units on the human team.
sorry can sombody, even the poster if he likes explane what he means by that?"you need to build 100 of these buildings to be able to do anything"
And, I one side was so hi-tech to have a load of cyborgs dont you think they might have concoured the process of making energy aswell? Or were they just very stupid and said "oppps... we spent all our time making working legs that we forgot to find out how to get teh power to run them."
It not that the principle is stupid (dont get me rong I actully like it) but like you im in a mean mood after zwzsg insulted my innocent post.
The whole idea was not to make a unit limit... IE i was all of the human side haveing 10000 men and the cyborgs having a mear 3000, however I was thinking ahead to when some idiot hits the unit limet on his game and complans its unbalanced. In theory no-one should be able to hit the limit (I hope).
As for the "weak" player should just hope to out produce in the first 5 mins and win with a rush... that IS exactly like SC and hence what i wanna avoid.
If anyone comes up with more ideas on how to balance without one side being limited to a smaller num of units post.
aGorm
You need to build 1 node, farm, overlord, supply building for every X units in play. "Build More Farms" should never be heard in Spring.
And Maybe the cyborgs did develope super great energy production technology, that's why they need so much of it, and I was assuming that the energy production buildings would be really cheap, I know this hurts the other half of balance... It's your back-story man, make an excuse... personally I'd prefere a unit value tag (how many units a unit is worth) and self limmiting costs and build times...
And Maybe the cyborgs did develope super great energy production technology, that's why they need so much of it, and I was assuming that the energy production buildings would be really cheap, I know this hurts the other half of balance... It's your back-story man, make an excuse... personally I'd prefere a unit value tag (how many units a unit is worth) and self limmiting costs and build times...
yeah man shut up. the only good thing bout the recent DoW is its graphics (which are AWESOME) the gameplay SUCKS ASS. maybe the race u r building can't be balanced using spring, take it somewhere else popcaps tankcaps etc have been replaced with a UNIT LIMIT surely u can make a modifier for this UnitlimitArm=250*2 UnitlimitCore=250*1 or something like that (i suck @ coding i.e. I CAN'T CODE) 
gl with your mod dude-sounds like u r gonna need it
gl with your mod dude-sounds like u r gonna need it -
sp2danny72
- Posts: 60
- Joined: 09 Jan 2005, 04:52
Why does everybody here hate SupplyDepots so much?
They serve a purpose! With SupplyDepots, the 'optimal'
strategy is more offensive than the 'optimal' strategy
without. Thats because its cheaper to replace lost units
than to build them in the first place. A good RTS (in my
opinion) has a couple of these things that 'punish' turtlers.
A couple of new unit-tags, for modmakers to do what they
please with, doesnt change OTA/XTA/AA/Favorite mod here.
So why not?
They serve a purpose! With SupplyDepots, the 'optimal'
strategy is more offensive than the 'optimal' strategy
without. Thats because its cheaper to replace lost units
than to build them in the first place. A good RTS (in my
opinion) has a couple of these things that 'punish' turtlers.
A couple of new unit-tags, for modmakers to do what they
please with, doesnt change OTA/XTA/AA/Favorite mod here.
So why not?
WHAT THE *&^%. DID I MENTION FARMS EVER?!?!?!?
NO I FREEKING DID NOT.
MY EXACT WORDS WERE (AND I QUOTE AND YOU EXCUSE ME FOR BEING JUST MILDLY PISSED OF)
In TA as it stands all units have a unit cost of 1.
You have a Unit Limet of 250 or 500 with teh patch or 5000 with the super patch.
Once you have built said 250/500/5000 units you can build no more.
All I wanted was to make some units count as TWO freggin Units towards this limit.
I dont want Crapy farms, they piss the hell out off me.
I was aking to have units be worth a certain number of units.
This would help ballance games with a small unit limit to not be biased for the cyborg player.
Rant over.
Now that yoiu all know what Im asking for can you please reply back. I dont want appolagies becasue I have ranted and ill admit it dont look pretty (Im Old and Ulgy enough to admit I should not rant, but you really pushed me.)
aGorm
NO I FREEKING DID NOT.
MY EXACT WORDS WERE (AND I QUOTE AND YOU EXCUSE ME FOR BEING JUST MILDLY PISSED OF)
Now can anyone, anyone please point out the point were i mentioned farms? I havent. I said unit costs.Would it be possible (or is it already??) to alow units in spring to have a "Unit cost". If that doesnt make sence think of warcraft or starcraft (aGorm dodges hail of bullets....) where things like tanks/ogers count as several men in terms of units taken up.
In TA as it stands all units have a unit cost of 1.
You have a Unit Limet of 250 or 500 with teh patch or 5000 with the super patch.
Once you have built said 250/500/5000 units you can build no more.
All I wanted was to make some units count as TWO freggin Units towards this limit.
I dont want Crapy farms, they piss the hell out off me.
I was aking to have units be worth a certain number of units.
This would help ballance games with a small unit limit to not be biased for the cyborg player.
Rant over.
Now that yoiu all know what Im asking for can you please reply back. I dont want appolagies becasue I have ranted and ill admit it dont look pretty (Im Old and Ulgy enough to admit I should not rant, but you really pushed me.)
aGorm
i do wish people would try to help with a solution, rather than bash the idea for being too much like SC, w/e
I've been poking around for a way to give units individual energy supplies (ammo, anyone?) so that their energy is seperate from the total store.
I haven't posted looking for a solution, because people will bash it for being too micro intensive...even if they have no idea how i'm going to implement it.
agreed with the hate of "more farms needed" and yes, the same effect could be accomplished with cost/resource system management (just make the limited race take longer to build ) but you all should help people find solutions, rather than bash the thing being searched for before you know how its going to be used.
I've been poking around for a way to give units individual energy supplies (ammo, anyone?) so that their energy is seperate from the total store.
I haven't posted looking for a solution, because people will bash it for being too micro intensive...even if they have no idea how i'm going to implement it.
agreed with the hate of "more farms needed" and yes, the same effect could be accomplished with cost/resource system management (just make the limited race take longer to build
) but you all should help people find solutions, rather than bash the thing being searched for before you know how its going to be used.I agree Nemo... Some people ehh?
Just 1 last little point, I do plan on having the cyborgs take longer to build, and cost more, thats bloody obvios realy. The unit cost Is for when people aproch the unit limit in the current game. After all, a cyborg play could just play real defensive till he had ammased an army equal in size to that of the humans (who long ago hit the unit limit of the game) and then attack, and the humans would loss as they cant build the cheap men neded to stave off the cyborgs due to hiting a unit limit.
If the unit limit is insanly hige it will still be balanced due to time to build and resorce cost.
aGorm
Just 1 last little point, I do plan on having the cyborgs take longer to build, and cost more, thats bloody obvios realy. The unit cost Is for when people aproch the unit limit in the current game. After all, a cyborg play could just play real defensive till he had ammased an army equal in size to that of the humans (who long ago hit the unit limit of the game) and then attack, and the humans would loss as they cant build the cheap men neded to stave off the cyborgs due to hiting a unit limit.
If the unit limit is insanly hige it will still be balanced due to time to build and resorce cost.
aGorm
One way to keep the more expensive race from porcing is well designed maps, and and placing importance on production:
Core's units are (well, supposed to be) more powerful overall than Arm, and yet Arm is the side played most often, because TA is a raiding game, and Arm has by far the better raiding vehicle.
So, I'd imagine the overall strategy for the humans would be to raid the cyborgs into nano-stall....preventing them from building anything, while the cyborgs would aim to create solid resource base so that they could tech up and crush the humans
on another note, does anyone know how i can individualize energy stores? <_<
Core's units are (well, supposed to be) more powerful overall than Arm, and yet Arm is the side played most often, because TA is a raiding game, and Arm has by far the better raiding vehicle.
So, I'd imagine the overall strategy for the humans would be to raid the cyborgs into nano-stall....preventing them from building anything, while the cyborgs would aim to create solid resource base so that they could tech up and crush the humans
on another note, does anyone know how i can individualize energy stores? <_<
Since your "human" units are so weak and cheap, why dont you produce them in packs of five. So five men would count only as one unit. As they are so weak it wouldn't make sense to conrol them idividually. With some unit scripting you still can make them look like five guys. However they would have to move in the team and cannot be seperated from each other.