Trailers and Trains!

thesleepless · Post by **thesleepless** » 16 Dec 2007, 12:38

I don't think this is currently possible or has previously been suggested, (please correct me if i am wrong)

1. the ability to create trailers for vehicles, (ie a truck cab unit which can connect to various trailer units (eg. cannon trailer, transport trailer, rapid fire trailer, radar trailer, etc and multiple in succession to build roadtrain type units)

2. (i think this is more unlikely and would be a lot more work): the ability to create rail systems by building tracks which rail movetype units can travel over (but cannot stray from the rails), these could be used for transporting units or resources (if that was possible). the enemy could also try to sabotage the rail system (either by damaging it or redirecting it perhaps)
maybe even build dead end rail systems that have incredibly fast trains fly off the end of the tracks like projectiles and into the enemy ^^

i'm not very familiar with spring's code, although i have quite a bit of experience with C and to a lesser extent C++, but i don't really know where to start with spring.

Pendrokar · Post by **Pendrokar** » 16 Dec 2007, 16:19

reminds me of S.W.I.N.E.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 16 Dec 2007, 17:34

Well, if each unit could transport another unit, you could have a semblance of a train.

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 16 Dec 2007, 17:49

You can use Lua to make something of a train. Look at Fibre by kdr and it's drone fab; changing it's workings a bit (well, quite a lot I think, but the basics are there) will give you something like a train.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 16 Dec 2007, 18:33

It's nothing like a train. For a train you'd want something to define your rail and then use MoveCtrl to force the train along the thing.

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 16 Dec 2007, 20:26

it is... if you look at it like that.

you need to add some magic so the drones follow each other instead of going for the beacon. didn't test it obviously, but half the work is done (drones can't be controlled and go for a fixed target.)

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 16 Dec 2007, 20:47

You'd have to constantly reissue the commands because there is no "follow closely" command. Disabling unit selection is easy, getting the desired behaviour isn't.

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 16 Dec 2007, 20:50

Yes and yes. Nobody said it's going to be easy

thesleepless · Post by **thesleepless** » 17 Dec 2007, 03:20

ignoring the rail stuff for the moment, just focusing on making trailers...

so it would require "drone" units that cannot be selected, actually, since you might want to turn them on or off in the case of a radar or to load or unload units in the case of a transport/bunker or use them to construct buildings in the case of a construction trailer/carriage, or even to aim them with the case of a gun trailer; they would need to be selectable units, but not freely movable, similar to a building i guess, but one that can move, but only by being attached to another moving unit.

it would also require some kind of attach/detach mechanism similar to the load/unload on transports

this could open up all kinds of possibilities for interesting modular units.

***

the rail system would require a construction unit capable of building rails which i guess would be neutral like DT, which normal units can pass over (perhaps with a speed penalty) and rail movetype units can only travel over, i suspect this would be difficult with the current pathfinding system.
this could open up quite interesting gameplay if rail units were very well armoured and powerful to make up for their movement restriction.
think quickly transporting masses of units via rail to the frontlines while the enemy attempts to sabotage the rails to stop your invasion force...
however the trailer stuff seems a lot more plausible...

yuritch · Post by **yuritch** » 17 Dec 2007, 07:33

Trailers can be done with transports, isFirePlatform=1 and some creative BOS scripting to make the trailer behave like a trailer should. Spring 0.76 should make that even easier since ground transports can be given holdSteady=1 in it. No additions to the engine necessary. No LUA required.
Trains, however, are a different matter. I'm not sure if they can be done via LUA+BOS without engine changes.

clumsy_culhane · Post by **clumsy_culhane** » 17 Dec 2007, 11:18

i have to ask.. are you wanting to create a train simulator for spring? that would be hilarious.. and quite cool if you pull it off well (fps the trains :D)

thesleepless · Post by **thesleepless** » 17 Dec 2007, 11:40

clumsy_culhane wrote:i have to ask.. are you wanting to create a train simulator for spring? that would be hilarious.. and quite cool if you pull it off well (fps the trains :D)

yes! imagine transport tycoon in the middle of a war zone!
similar to FIBRE where resources are local to nodes, each factory has its own metal cache, so it will have to be transported from the metal deposits/rocks/wreckage by units (metal trucks and metal trains, etc) to the factories to be converted into units. setting up train, truck, ship, heli networks to deliver the metal to the factories and deliver units to the battlefield. supply lines become a large part of the battle, rather than directly attacking the enemies army you can attack their supply routes to hinder them while defending your own. (similar to protecting MEXes in TA i guess, but moreso)
was also considering limited metal (optional depending on the map), but 100% reclaim rate from wreckages. so getting that metal back from the battlefield aftermath becomes very important in the lategame.

manored · Post by **manored** » 17 Dec 2007, 16:30

Supply lines would be cool but they would also completly change the gameplay we know, not that is a bad thing tough... :)

Like in a mod with supply lines its probable that we wouldnt be able to make stuff as fast, so for example you couldnt airdrop your commander in a enemy zone and make a base there before the enemy could react, and probally woudlnt be able to make a counter-invasion arm all of a sudden but rather have it already ready for the invasion... more like real life, what could be fun :)

thesleepless · Post by **thesleepless** » 17 Dec 2007, 17:26

yes, it's not planned to be much like a standard TA game.
it would be a decidedly slower and perhaps more porcy game, but i enjoy a slower pace.

you could airdrop a construction unit behind enemy lines to set up a 2nd base, but it'd soon run out of resources to build, so you'd have to find some way to keep it supplied, either by setting up another power plant + metal mine there, or by continually airdropping more supplies to the new base. (or even stealing the enemies supplies with some cloaking!)

manored · Post by **manored** » 17 Dec 2007, 17:43

I dont think the third option would be a good idea, since that would most likely call the enemy attention to your presence and then BANG :)

I too like a slow pace, and actual I like turn based startegy games over realtime ones... anyone feeling like making a turn-based mod? :)

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 17 Dec 2007, 20:03

manored wrote:Supply lines would be cool but they would also completly change the gameplay we know, not that is a bad thing tough... :)

Like in a mod with supply lines its probable that we wouldnt be able to make stuff as fast, so for example you couldnt airdrop your commander in a enemy zone and make a base there before the enemy could react, and probally woudlnt be able to make a counter-invasion arm all of a sudden but rather have it already ready for the invasion... more like real life, what could be fun :)

Maybe I should tell you to look at Fibre...

CarRepairer · Post by **CarRepairer** » 17 Dec 2007, 21:48

That old game Serf City - every single resource must be carried to every building that requires it to be built. Nice and realistic.

Another contrast of this to TA is how does a power plant with no power lines supply electricity for a laser tower on the opposite side of the map beyond a cliff and lake. This would be even more complex than the simple ferrying of metal to supply lines mentioned.

Cool idea though re the trailers/rails.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 17 Dec 2007, 22:08

CarRepairer wrote:That old game Serf City - every single resource must be carried to every building that requires it to be built. Nice and realistic.

Better known as The Settlers, BTW.

manored · Post by **manored** » 18 Dec 2007, 15:03

KDR_11k wrote:
manored wrote:Supply lines would be cool but they would also completly change the gameplay we know, not that is a bad thing tough... :)

Like in a mod with supply lines its probable that we wouldnt be able to make stuff as fast, so for example you couldnt airdrop your commander in a enemy zone and make a base there before the enemy could react, and probally woudlnt be able to make a counter-invasion arm all of a sudden but rather have it already ready for the invasion... more like real life, what could be fun :)
Maybe I should tell you to look at Fibre...

I search on google but I find everthing except a game called this way... can I have a link? :)

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 18 Dec 2007, 17:59

It's on UF, like everything else. http://www.unknown-files.net/spring/3877/Fibre_v41/ Even has a thread in Mod Discussion...

Spring RTS Engine

Trailers and Trains!

Trailers and Trains!