Implementing a more realistic radar in a mod?

[BaNa]

I had a few ideas for a mod that would be more like current warfare. One of them would be a different radar system, because I feel that radar use / information warfare in modern times is much more varied than it is portrayed in this game. A couple of features came to mind, and I would be interested in how doable these things are with the current engine / future versions of spring:

The ability to detect enemy radar, sonar from farther away : radar signals are by no means undetectable, in fact it is easier for one to detect enemy radar than it is for that radar to detect you. This could add an extra layer to information warfare.

Radar should return different types of signatures based on unit size (& speed?), in fact it should detect different types of units at different distances, because of this. This could present an attacker with some tactical choices, because for instance fast raiders blazing towards the enemy would be noticed earlier on radar.

Jammers should behave differently, spraying the enemy radar with fake hits instead of blanking out territories (of course a powerful jammer would make an area incomprehensible to the enemy, but he would sure notice it is being jammed). The only way to make units radar invisible IRL is to make em stealthy (shape, size, material), not some kind of magical radar-be gone jammer. The new jammers could have a role in diverting enemy attention in multiple directions, which is still highly useful.

So, any ideas as to how/if this could be done? Do you think these could be valuable parts in a mod?

BaNa

[rcdraco]

This is more of a feature request, and also, a few people might not want this, hell radar doesn't even WORK in my mod. >_<

This system sounds neat, on paper. Ingame, I would think it would take a large amount of resources and basically lag the average BA player to submission. If you want it implemented, LUA can probably do it, or a developer can add some fbi tags for it.

[DandyGnome]

Yes this is a feature request, and it has approximately been made before with a number of people asking for it. However the most likely reason it hasn't been implemented yet is due to the high complexity of what is being asked for and the difficulty of implementing it without breaking all current mods. It pretty much would have to be implemented as a separate system from the current radar/sonar.

[[Krogoth86]]

Well I don't think it makes much sense here to ask for realism. What we have here in Spring (or TA to be precise) isn't a real radar at all but just some kind of area detection (it's just called radar so everyone knows what it does instantly). That also explains why Jammers work the way they do and so on. If you want realism you won't need those radars at all because you will have all time sight on the whole map due to espionage satellites all around the orbit. But it's just a game and here the concept works...

As you now don't have to do TA based mods some of your points are useful for other gametypes though the ability to have different sized radar dots (to differ a Flea from a Krog without sight) might come in handy even here...

[Fanger]

you could so have realistic radar.. and satellites do not constantly transmit images of everything all the time in real time.. so no you wouldnt instantly be able to see the whole map.. Los would still be limited..

[1v0ry_k1ng]

The only way to make units radar invisible IRL is to make em stealthy

right, so they can make galactic gates and fusion power but making an effective radar jammer is going to be a bit of a struggle

[BaNa]

right, so they can make galactic gates and fusion power but making an effective radar jammer is going to be a bit of a struggle

I wasn't referring to any TA-derived mods here. The things valid for the TA universe would be sensing others radars, since whatever technology they use must have an effect on the target too [basic law of life] and size-discriminating radar signatures.

This is more of a feature request

I was toying with the idea of a new mod concept, one more centered around information warfare (with circa todays technology), and i did not know if these things are possible in the current spring, hence my hesitation to do outright requests. Feel free to move this to a more relevant place if you are a passing mod.

If you want realism you won't need those radars at all because you will have all time sight on the whole map due to espionage satellites all around the orbit.

I believe that current-day war maneuvers use radar because : espionage satellites are big, clunky, expensive and do not hover in place right above the target area, furthermore they do not provide a good temporal resolution and they lag. Z-axis resolution would also be somewhat tricky. Spy drones are cool however, they are more useful in tactical situations.

I am not dissing the radar/jammer thing we have now in spring/TA, it is good for a purpose, I'm just interested whether a new mod could be more realistic in this area.

It pretty much would have to be implemented as a separate system from the current radar/sonar.

Fine by me, thanks for the information.

BaNa

[[Krogoth86]]

I believe that current-day war maneuvers use radar because : espionage satellites are big, clunky, expensive and do not hover in place right above the target area, furthermore they do not provide a good temporal resolution and they lag. Z-axis resolution would also be somewhat tricky. Spy drones are cool however, they are more useful in tactical situations.

Well I was more or less speaking of the TA scenario when mentioning the satellites although even nowadays you can zoom in pretty much everywhere with a decent framerate and resolution. What confuses me a bit is that some of the things you ask for don't make much sense to me when talking about a radar. A radar will do you only good for flying things, not ground units and here it also wouldn't be so necessary to distinguish between different sizes (except for TA style mods again with big bogies flying around). As I said - the recent "radar" is more of an area detection device but nothing like a real radar...

[Snipawolf]

Radar is a system that uses electromagnetic waves to identify the range, altitude, direction, or speed of both moving and fixed objects such as aircraft, ships, motor vehicles, weather formations, and terrain. A transmitter emits radio waves, which are reflected by the target and detected by a receiver, typically in the same location as the transmitter. Although the radio signal returned is usually very weak, radio signals can easily be amplified. This enables a radar to detect objects at ranges where other emissions, such as sound or visible light, would be too weak to detect.

Radars can't give specific info... Unless the radar is extremely powerful, and the waves are strong enough to be amplified enough to see curves and edges.

[Felix the Cat]

LUA it

[yuritch]

Radars can't give specific info... Unless the radar is extremely powerful, and the waves are strong enough to be amplified enough to see curves and edges.

RL radars can give more info than what Spring gives us though. At least they can distinguish a flying object from the ground one. Also they can (to some degree) guess the size of said object - a "blip" from the Boeing 747 would be very different from the one from a fighter, for example. Most RL fighters (even non-"stealth" ones) have some means to reduce their "effective reflective area" (not sure how that is called in English properly) and modern ships also have that, so their radar-reported size is smaller than it would appear.

[KDR_11k]

You can tell air from ground just fine, just tilt your camera view

[Felix the Cat]

The only way to make units radar invisible IRL is to make em stealthy

right, so they can make galactic gates and fusion power but making an effective radar jammer is going to be a bit of a struggle

spring != TA

[Warlord Zsinj]

See this thread here for a suggested radar system.

I think that would give modders a lot more flexibility in terms of radar control.

[tombom]

The only way to make units radar invisible IRL is to make em stealthy

right, so they can make galactic gates and fusion power but making an effective radar jammer is going to be a bit of a struggle

spring != TA

spring != S44 also

[Gnomre]

right, so they can make galactic gates and fusion power but making an effective radar jammer is going to be a bit of a struggle

spring != TA

spring != S44 also

But S44 = SWS!

¬_¬

[Guessmyname]

*whacks Gnome on the back of the head, stuffs a fishing rod into his hand and dumps him next to a pond*

[VonGratz]

Also, if implemented, I would like to see something like a radar detection, that would enable or not , anti-radar missiles to get these installations when they would be turn-on, or not if they would be turn-off.
Im testing for the next version of my mod anti-radar missiles, but, for while, they can hit all radar tag unit in the missile range ,in operation or not , what not is very good .
vonGratz

[Tired]

[pimp]Tired Annihilation radar units (vehicles and kbots) have radar spoofing (each offers maybe 13 false, fuzzy radar blips). Not as nice as SupCom's spoofing, but looks pretty cool. TA also offers additional radar icons not found in other mods, to include Orcone, Advanced Fusion, and tier 4 icons. ~~[/pimp]

The new radar signatures are Machio's creation, so if you're into this "asking for permission" nonsense, then you should contact him, but why these aren't in use for other mods with the same units is beyond me.

[[Krogoth86]]

Well I think i still fail to see what would be so good about all this. A real radar only is for air so put the stealth tag on all your ground units if you want just that. The only situation where you might want to use something like this is when you want a seperate air and ground "radar". Well for this you might just want to use LUA and add a special "stealthground" tag which gets checked by your detector. You also could do a tower with an insane sight range or even better go ahead and take the seismic detector script and don't spawn that funny circles but some radar dots...