Guardian/Ambusher problems

Klopper · Post by **Klopper** » 18 Jul 2007, 14:41

Guardians and Ambushers on high trajectory seem to show some strange behavior for me when mountains are involved, maybe has something to do with the new spherical range. They seem to be unable to shoot over or onto some mountains from certain positions, and when built on mountains their range is reduced (occured in BA 5.4). You can try it well on Altored Divide: build one next to the mountain in right middle and try to shoot onto/over the mountain, or make one on the northern/southern high mountains (the ones bordering the starting territories), set it to high trajectory and compare its displayed and real range...

Pendrokar · Post by **Pendrokar** » 18 Jul 2007, 15:54

Well the range in high trajectory is fine but firing isn't! They rly don't shoot over hills(Well one thing that could be the cause is that you can't fire over hills in FPS!!!)!

Klopper · Post by **Klopper** » 18 Jul 2007, 17:38

maybe that range reduction when they are on a mountain and on high trajectory doesn't happen always, i have a test replay where it occurs though...i tested it with a guardian on altored divide, built on a mountain and set to high trajectory afterwards, and it only was able to shoot at half or so of its displayed range...

miki · Post by **miki** » 18 Jul 2007, 22:11

i think that spring calculates the hight as distance, so its reduced, and the other way around...

YokoZar · Post by **YokoZar** » 19 Jul 2007, 01:26

Pendrokar wrote:Well the range in high trajectory is fine but firing isn't! They rly don't shoot over hills(Well one thing that could be the cause is that you can't fire over hills in FPS!!!)!

This is a good screenshot - a guardian there simply will not shoot at anything to the left or underneath it, even though it's well within range.

Klopper · Post by **Klopper** » 19 Jul 2007, 08:17

Don't forget it's set to high trajectory so it usually would have been able to shoot there...

Spawn_Retard · Post by **Spawn_Retard** » 19 Jul 2007, 23:44

i had this problem with my own mod seconds ago, where a guardian wouldnt fire off a mountain to a lower platform.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 20 Jul 2007, 01:08

I had this problem too, a toaster wouldnt fire from a mountian onto a lab which was in range and not not obstructed.

VonGratz · Post by **VonGratz** » 20 Jul 2007, 03:47

Klopper wrote:Guardians and Ambushers on high trajectory seem to show some strange behavior for me when mountains are involved, maybe has something to do with the new spherical range. They seem to be unable to shoot over or onto some mountains from certain positions, and when built on mountains their range is reduced (occured in BA 5.4). You can try it well on Altored Divide: build one next to the mountain in right middle and try to shoot onto/over the mountain, or make one on the northern/southern high mountains (the ones bordering the starting territories), set it to high trajectory and compare its displayed and real range...

I think that could be the tsg highangle=1: in that mod...
VonGratz

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 20 Jul 2007, 08:45

Didn't look at the source or test it, but it may be that cannons use spherical range checking instead of, um, parabolic.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 20 Jul 2007, 09:23

ALL weapons use spherical range checking as a fdefault in 75b*, except for the MeleeWeapon.

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 21 Jul 2007, 00:19

this particular bug should be fixed in http://spring.clan-sy.com/mantis/view.php?id=565

Pendrokar · Post by **Pendrokar** » 21 Jul 2007, 00:31

this particular bug should be fixed in http://spring.clan-sy.com/mantis/view.php?id=565

But what about high trajectory not shooting over hills???

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 21 Jul 2007, 01:10

will investigate.

edit: guardian is able to shoot to the other side of the hill on small divide. is there something else wrong?

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 21 Jul 2007, 02:54

Just a wild idea:

Unless BA has adjusted them, the ambusher/guardian uses some fancy scripting (courtesy of Archangel Of Death) to give them that "huge damage on HT" "low damage on LT" effect... that might be what's confusing the game. The unit actually has two weapons, just different ones are allowed to fire under different circumstances... it was an unusual fix, I wouldn't be surprised if it causes problems in some circumstances.

Spawn_Retard · Post by **Spawn_Retard** » 21 Jul 2007, 20:20

you can check it with island of war 1.0 if you take the mountain nearest right on the bottom side.

i tried a firing off it, and even though the island was well in range of the shot nothing happend, HT or LT didnt work.

Lippy · Post by **Lippy** » 21 Jul 2007, 23:34

Yes, ive been having the same problem too. I think its connected to this: http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=10493.
KDR said to enable old style you need to enable cylinder targetting... not that i know what that means.. neither does Noize to fix BA.

imbaczek · Post by **imbaczek** » 22 Jul 2007, 13:08

Lippy wrote:Yes, ive been having the same problem too. I think its connected to this: http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=10493.
KDR said to enable old style you need to enable cylinder targetting... not that i know what that means.. neither does Noize to fix BA.

The problem is essentially unfixable now (as in "keep the old behaviour") - you can try setting cylinderTargetting to unit's weapon_range/unit_radius as something _somewhat_ viable. The real fix is in a patch I submitted, but Tobi being on vacation means no commit and no bugfix release.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 22 Jul 2007, 15:22

Tobi is necessary for releases but any dev can commit.

YokoZar · Post by **YokoZar** » 22 Jul 2007, 20:31

Caydr wrote:Just a wild idea:

Unless BA has adjusted them, the ambusher/guardian uses some fancy scripting (courtesy of Archangel Of Death) to give them that "huge damage on HT" "low damage on LT" effect... that might be what's confusing the game. The unit actually has two weapons, just different ones are allowed to fire under different circumstances... it was an unusual fix, I wouldn't be surprised if it causes problems in some circumstances.

Excuse me? What's the justification for having a guardian do more damage with high trajectory?

Spring RTS Engine

Guardian/Ambusher problems

Guardian/Ambusher problems

Re: Guardian/Ambusher problems