SWS Design Competition: The Imperial Commander

SWS Design Competition: The Imperial Commander

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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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SWS Design Competition: The Imperial Commander

Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Design Competition: The Imperial Commander

Image

Greetings from Star Wars Spring!

Welcome to our first Design Competition!

Introduction
As many of you who have been following our other thread in these forums know, since our last release, we have been reworking pretty much all of the units from scratch, in order to update them to visuals worthy of the Spring engine.

However, in redesigning much of Star Wars Spring, we have taken it upon ourselves to refine and change the balance. One of the things we are intending to do is to make the two sides (Rebels and Imperials) more assymetrical.

Currently, both sides commence the game with a similar construction vehicle. The ugly thing we use now doesn't really fit the role for the central element of imperial's player war machine - and it is not particularly impressive at all. Furthermore, to reflect our balance changes, instead of each side starting with almost the same construction vehicle, we've decided that the imperial starting unit would not be a mobile vehicle, but a static headquarters building (A bit like the Construction Yard from Command & Conquer). There is no real canon for this; the only precedent in the Star Wars universe to this is the the Prefabricated Garrison Base. Which is more or less what we want, but on a much, much smaller scale.

Given the importance of this unit, we think it is essential that it looks as good as it possibly can, so we're opening the design up to you in a competition.

The winning design will be used in our next release as what is essentially the most important thing in the entire Imperial arsenal; something which is seen in practically every single game of Star Wars Spring.
... And of course you will be credited accordingly :)

I've seen the work which a number of people have done on these forums, and I've been really impressed; I think you are all well up to this challenge.
Importantly, I also feel that this is a possibility for many people who can't contribute their talents on a regular basis, but would nonetheless like to contribute to SWS, to do a 'one-off' design.
I'd love to see some people who are busy with their own mods, but nonetheless have significant talents to offer.
(I'm looking at you Smoth)


Onto the specifics:

Requirements of Design
Here are the 'rules' for the required submissions. Please understand that we are flexible regarding rules in some regards (obviously not in others such as "It is an immobile structure"). The rules are there more as an indication of what we need, and as a starting point. We aren't setting out to inhibit your creativity; creative designs are what we are after!. Please feel free to query us regarding them.

Required elements
Image
1) It should be no bigger then indicated in the image above (use the Stormtroopers as a guide for scale. Old commander included for ugliness comparisons ;) )
2) It should be an immobile structure
3) It should be capable of constructing units either through:
- "training units" inside itself
- Having a clear "landing pad" structure where units can be delivered from an unseen orbiting Star Destroyer via a shuttle.
It will not be building any large vehicles, only stormtroopers and probe droids, and perhaps a speeder bike, so you don't need to make it look like a giant factory.
4) It needs some sort of radar device. This does not have to be a standard radar shape, it could look like a military radar, or it could just be a big antenna.
5) It is armed with the following:
- 360 degree light laser battery
note: We are not specifying a specific weapon type, so you don't need to go search for a "light laser battery". We simply want a weapon that is intended to destroy infantry at a medium range. It could be guys standing in guard towers, it could be automated turrets, anything really.
Furthermore, 360 degree fire coverage doesn't mean you can't have 4 guns with 90 degree arcs each, or two guns with 180 degree arcs, etc.
- An anti air weapon
Again, this could be a missile battery, or a flak turret. Its up to you.
6) It needs clear provision for team colours

Optional Elements
These do not have to be included for the design to be accepted, but you may wish to include them, and designs using these elements will be looked upon favourably:
1) A "folding up mechanism", whereby the structure is capable of somehow turning on an armoured state. This could be through unveiling steel armour, through folding up and closing into itself, burrowing beneath the ground, etc. This should not involve star wars-style energy shields.
2) Upgrade slots: Visible areas on the commander that will receive extra "appendages" as the player constructs certain upgrades on their commander, to give it new abilities (you don't really have to provide these abilities, we haven't quite decided these ourselves, nor worked out how to trick the Spring engine into letting us to do it), but maybe think about how this building would be "expanded" on top of what is already there.
3) This thing is meant to be dropped by a Star Destroyer onto a planet to subdue it. Therefore, some sort of landing animation that could play at the outset of the game (and perhaps if we allow the player to build more) would be nice. This could involve a sort of meteor slamming into the ground, then opening up effect, or it could be some sort of shuttle lowering the thing to the ground. Or it could have engines built into it, so that it lowers itself into the ground, etc. Whatever you can think of! Have it land in a giant egg which hatches open! ;)
4) Include the Imperial Logo somewhere on the structure

Aesthetic Elements / The spirit of the design
Think of these more as guidelines or suggestions then rules, unlike the necessary requirements indicated above. I want to encourage interesting and varied designs, not funnel you all into producing the same things.
1) This is the centrepiece of the Imperial warmachine. It needs to be big and nasty, and look very impressive. It needs to look like a command centre; but also a command centre meant for war on the front lines. So it needs to look battle ready. Think of it as a "field HQ". (no tents! ;) )
2) It must be Imperial. Imperials tend to use sharp lines, heavy concreted elements, advanced war technology, and cold steel. It should look foreboding, and more then a little evil. In looking quasi-megalomaniac, it shouldn't look B-grade supervillain fortress either. It should look realistic, and functional as well as evil and oppressive. Think Stalin or Hitler rather then Ming the Merciless ;)
3) People like to look at a structure that appears to be alive rather then an inert mass. Pieces that move, maybe stormtroopers that walk around the perimeter, or scan the horizon; rotating radars, etc. Vent fans that spin, or flashing lights are always good.
4) If you plan to have units be trained internally rather then using the landing pad, some sort of visual animation to convey this to the player would be needed.
5) The image earlier showing size is the standard Spring view. Certainly, the camera can be rotated into pretty much any position; but for the most part, because this is an RTS, players are looking at it from this perspective. Your design should aim to look the best from this view.
6) The way in which it "meets the ground" needs to be resolved; does it look half submerged? Is it raised on a concrete block?

Some important features/limitations to bare in mind:
- If you decide to do a model, it should be kept under 4000 polygons, preferably even under 2500. However this is an important unit, and will likely be limited to one per player, so we are happy for you to go as high as 4000, as long as it's worth it. For instance don't waste thousands polys on a grill, or on a perfectly round sphere.
- We can, and are happy to spawn effects on the building, such as decorative lights, lasers, etc. Smoke is preferably avoided to keep particle counts down.

The Requirements of the Competition
Submission Types
3D models are looked upon favourably, as we can rotate them, zoom in and out, etc. If we like your design a lot, we may be able to just use the model itself in the end. We can deal with most common filetypes.

You are welcome to submit sequential screenshots showing how things work, animation clips, anything that will help us understand your building.

However, we are just as happy to receive illustrations indicating your design, and how your unit works. These could be scanned sketches, photoshopped works, anything. As long as they are:
- Clear
- Have a couple of different views, perspective, isometric or orthogonal, so that if we choose your design we can easily translate it into 3D.
- indicate through illustration or annotations the most important animations you have intended for the structure.
For example, if you decide to have your commander fold up into an armoured state, we would need a picture of it open, a picture of it closed, and perhaps a picture of it as it "folds up" to explain how this works.

Closing date
Given that we are trying to push a release out, we can't wait too long for this, so the deadline for all submissions will be the Monday, the 7th of May (date includes new week extension, as of 28/04/07).
This is just over three weeks from now. Hopefully this will give you enough time to work out and refine your designs.
If there are any changes to the length of the competition, you will be all informed of this well in advance of the closing date.

FINAL submissions should be emailed to: starwarsspring@gmail.com

However, we very much encourage you to post your ideas and work-in-progress in this thread, so that other users can comment and criticise, giving you the chance to rework your designs, change them, etc.

This competition has been opened to the following other communities:
(You don't need to visit to keep an eye on the competition, I'll be cross posting all working-progress entries)
Scifi-meshes
Jedi Council Art Forum
ModDB

Good luck!

And a final little note:
While the winning design will be used, we have to reserve the right to be able to alter the design a little bit, in the case that it is difficult to do in 3D, or in Spring, or for any other number of functional requirements. If we do this, we'll endeavour to talk with the winner about this so that he/she still has input on this.

Warlord Zsinj
Star Wars Spring

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Last edited by Warlord Zsinj on 27 Apr 2007, 16:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Zoy64
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Post by Zoy64 »

COOOOL!!!!!!!!!!
My life-long dream realized!
I accept this challenge and i hope i will have competition :wink:
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Snipawolf
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Post by Snipawolf »

I may try, depends on how I feel... I really would like to get a "realistic" unit in my game besides my comm, which for some reason is the only unit in my mod that won't crash Spring.. weird huh?
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Neddie
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Post by Neddie »

Wait - an immobile structure?
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rattle
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Post by rattle »

Don't know yet...
I'd need the models and skin of an AA trooper, turbolaser battery and a scout drone (if any of them are present).

The idea is to use AA troopers as air defense, the scout drones are the infantry defense (which circle/patrol around the complex) and for a laser bank I'd mount the turret of a turbolaser battery to it. Well that's the idea... the building could be anything in the style of the imperium, that SW wiki is probably a good source.

edit:
Are you only asking for a mesh or for the finished product?
Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Yup, Neddie. An immobile structure.

Rattle:
We only want the mesh, not the finished product. We are after your ideas, not for you to do our work for us.
What I suggest is, simply make some simple approximations of these units (ie: use a trapezoid with two cylinders for a basic turbolaser style battery). We only need to understand what you are doing, and appreciate your idea. Later on if you really want them, we can see about getting you the original models, if you like.

By scout drones, do you mean probe droids?
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rattle
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Post by rattle »

If it's only the mesh then I don't need the models/textures of course.

Yes that's the droid I think if it's the same seen in one of the movies on hoth. Thought of a little variety instead of casual turrets.
Self-destruct mechanism
Hmm they could shoot or detonate infantry and get replaced over time...
Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Working units into the design is fine; but I think it is important that these units stay within the bounds of the building, from a functional point of view. And you are also probably best off keeping troopers with legs that need to move stationary as much as possible (ie: put them in guard towers, or behind barricades), rather then moving. This is because it is very difficult to animate parts of a building to look like they are running the normal infantry walk animation.

This is because they wouldn't be units with normal unit intelligence, they would just be animated parts of the building. This means that they won't necessarily behave the way you want them too when interacting with other units. It also means that your units won't fire at those "building parts" when they are being fired at by them, but will rather fire at the building itself, which could look odd.

Perhaps, instead of using patrolling probe droids, you could use a hovering drone armed with lasers instead? That would deal with pathfinding issues (you'd just make it a floating turret), and make it look a little bit more believable. That could be pretty cool, IMO.

We haven't really investigated too much into the new LUA scripting, but it might be possible to spawn the drones as individual units (with their own unit AI's, rather then actual parts of the building) whenever the building is under attack, and then remove them once the threat has been removed. I'll have to check that one up for you.
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rattle
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Post by rattle »

Perhaps, instead of using patrolling probe droids, you could use a hovering drone armed with lasers instead? That would deal with pathfinding issues (you'd just make it a floating turret), and make it look a little bit more believable. That could be pretty cool, IMO.
By partrolling I meant they'd spin around the center of the building (some clockwise, some ccw) and the radius changes randomly. Troopers would be stationary yeah.

I'll see what I can do, probably next weekend.
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zwzsg
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Post by zwzsg »

Warlord Zsinj wrote:This is because it is very difficult to animate parts of a building to look like they are running the normal infantry walk animation.
I don't see why it would be difficult: Use one or two pieces that follow the path, then add the whole trooper as "piece with children" Then copy'n'pasta the whole trooper script into the bunker script. Yes they wouldn't be units with intelligence and pathing, so what? They'll still look and be animated exactly like the other troopers. Pathfinding and collision issues are irrelevant as long as they walk on their own balcony. Ok you wouldn't be able to select nor target them, but IMO that's not a problem as long as they stay very close to the bunker. Much less a problem that delivery shuttle you can't shoot down, for instance, and you have zero trouble accepting such shuttle.
We haven't really investigated too much into the new LUA scripting, but it might be possible to spawn the drones as individual units (with their own unit AI's, rather then actual parts of the building) whenever the building is under attack, and then remove them once the threat has been removed. I'll have to check that one up for you.
There is no point in getting into all that trouble. Hovering drones as unit piece work very fine.
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Snipawolf
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Post by Snipawolf »

I was wondering who it was that scripted that. Very fine work indeed!
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zwzsg
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Post by zwzsg »

What are you talking about? The imperial bunker isn't scripted yet, and as for that, it was scripted by "Krieg". BTW, for Talon, TRO also made a similar drone frigate, which I believe he scripted himself.
Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Hmmm; I must ask TRO to put a submission in for this...

Storm too, though he's probably up to his ears in the current FU mess...
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

lowest bidder starts the auction, so here we are, hot straight off paint, the All Terrian Mobile Command:
Image

three laser turrets which could be made less powerful looking to be anti infantry, a missle turret on the command bridge.
an opening door at the front in which infantry can be produced, spinning radar dish.
if feeling creative, at the begining of the game it could start standing up (it has folded up legs to show that its intended to stomp foward with the ATST's until a command center is required) then fold down into the base.
if feeling v creative, it could switch between a factory and a big stompy thing with an on/off switch.

picture of it unfolding pending
Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59

Post by Warlord Zsinj »

It's 2am, and I've just got home (so excuse any briefness); but I'd just like to tell that I'm really impressed that you had the courage to post first up, and, in my view, I find that really impressive. Honestly, I give my respect to you for this. :-)

I'll be back tomorrow morning with an updated post with a few more details.

Very briefly, I like the polygonal shape, but I think perhaps a plan view is needed to further understand the design (ie: what is happening in the areas obscured by perspective?). Also (though you seem to have recognised it) the turbolasers are a little bit out of scale for the size of the structure, as indicated in the originally indicated size. Maybe you could use a stormtrooper controlled turret, like this or perhaps a modified version of this; or something entirely made up by you.

Further, I offer a question (not a criticism); if the door and AA gun is only on one side, does this make it the "front" of the building? Can a hexagonal building have a "front"?

Finally, a need for clarification: I don't quite understand how the peripheral wings "hit the ground" could you clarify this for me? (the bits next to the turbolaser turrets)

I think the underlying geometric emphasis of your design is a strong one, and I think your initial sketch quite clearly shows where you want to go with it. I think the central element needs a little more detail, and the peripheral elements need a little more fleshing out, but I think generally, I can see where you are going, and like it.
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AF
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Post by AF »

Will this be a one off unit or will this be buildable?
j5mello
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Post by j5mello »

he said either one off or if buildable they will be prohibitively expensive
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Zoy64
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Re: SWS Design Competition: The Imperial Commander

Post by Zoy64 »

Warlord Zsinj wrote: It should be an immobile structure
It is supposed to be an immovable building, not a factory/"big stompy thing."
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Peet
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Post by Peet »

Warlord Zsinj wrote:generally, I can see where you are going, and like it.
Zoy, it's kinda pointless to bash a design after the creator of the competition has praised it.
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