The vulcane is the one most useless weapon in the game, imho.
Takes a crapload to build, is SO inaccurate you might as well hit parts of your own base if you dont build it right at the frontbase, and rarely hits what it is supposed to.
I once was under vulcane fire on egyt, for about 10 minutes sustained, and didnt lose more than a few farks (as every important buildings have enough health to take 3 or 4 hits from a vulcane, and a vulcane is rarely to hit the same building more than once every 2 or 3 minutes...)
Its more herassment than anything else, and thats a bit disappointing. Its the ultimate weapon, takes millions of energy to build and ton to fire, its helpless even against modest airstrikes.... It should be a bit more deadly. (although OTA level of deadlyness was a bit much for the price, too :) )
XTA Balance!
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Vulcan are annoying, and that's pretty much it. If you get someone base under fire from 2-3 vulcan you can really do some damage though. If you defend your vulcan properly and fark it if it dies you can cost the enemy alot of res in rebuilding in the long run.
I tend to do anything but artillery bombard when I play, because I find it's unpredictable most of the time, but I've lost games before to constant bombardment.
I tend to do anything but artillery bombard when I play, because I find it's unpredictable most of the time, but I've lost games before to constant bombardment.
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PT_bate_chapas
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 28 Sep 2005, 02:54
Planes, boats and hovers
Every boats and planes (except brawlers) should be atractive to buy. How many times have you bought 2nd level fighters and bombers...? And how many times have you bought Milleniums... or subs... or any 2nd level water unit...?
I think hovers should be cheaper and less build time, we rarely use them too.
PT_bate_chapas
I think hovers should be cheaper and less build time, we rarely use them too.
PT_bate_chapas
Oo?
I dont understand what you mean?
L2 fighters are a MUST HAVE. They can slaugher enemy brawler swarms, and air dominance helps base defense, los, and prevents nasty airliftings (one hit kills vs l1 fighters make them very much stronger at air superiority).
Obviously, there is no need for boats when there is no sea (or when the sea doesnt dominate the map), but the anti aircraft ship are quite cost effective (compared to stationary flakkers, for example), and while milleniums arent krogoths, they can quite well hurt when shelling shores (their range is longer than one might expect at times)
Submarines make excellent spies (people so often forget sonar), and parked at the shore you can effectively prevent shipyards from being build.
I guess the main problem is that there are few maps in spring that really are really navy friendly.
I dont understand what you mean?
L2 fighters are a MUST HAVE. They can slaugher enemy brawler swarms, and air dominance helps base defense, los, and prevents nasty airliftings (one hit kills vs l1 fighters make them very much stronger at air superiority).
Obviously, there is no need for boats when there is no sea (or when the sea doesnt dominate the map), but the anti aircraft ship are quite cost effective (compared to stationary flakkers, for example), and while milleniums arent krogoths, they can quite well hurt when shelling shores (their range is longer than one might expect at times)
Submarines make excellent spies (people so often forget sonar), and parked at the shore you can effectively prevent shipyards from being build.
I guess the main problem is that there are few maps in spring that really are really navy friendly.
in anglo saxon, a good timed Warlord can do marvels on enemys base.
A buzzaw is useless in xta.. unable to do harm, but 3-4 starts getting very annoying AND destructive as shells take less time to hit the same target again.
Lvl 2 planes/ships are very usefull, but in the rigth map, and time.
Its just some ppl are used to build only gunships.
I think no one of you has used hovers really.
they ARE already very powerfull. i mean it. hover scouts can kill skeeters, even those lvl 1 destroyers (3-4 of them can easily kill one), they have a very strong ligth laser.
The hover const ship is fast moving and a fast builder, it also can build water mexes and some other water related structures (which const planes cant).
And finally, (shouldnt say this) the hover LRM outperforms all the other LRM units of xta.
Hovers are just a hidden danger, (worth the risk of start with them when possible).
A buzzaw is useless in xta.. unable to do harm, but 3-4 starts getting very annoying AND destructive as shells take less time to hit the same target again.
Lvl 2 planes/ships are very usefull, but in the rigth map, and time.
Its just some ppl are used to build only gunships.
I think no one of you has used hovers really.
they ARE already very powerfull. i mean it. hover scouts can kill skeeters, even those lvl 1 destroyers (3-4 of them can easily kill one), they have a very strong ligth laser.
The hover const ship is fast moving and a fast builder, it also can build water mexes and some other water related structures (which const planes cant).
And finally, (shouldnt say this) the hover LRM outperforms all the other LRM units of xta.
Hovers are just a hidden danger, (worth the risk of start with them when possible).
Vulcans/buzzsaws have there place- in a highly defencive map like metal isles the Vulcan/buzzsaw will inevitabally become a primary siege weapon of the victor, and a constant base defence smashing annoyance to the eventual looser.
When/If the SYs decide the include the ability to dynamically alter terrain to your benifit (actually have a terraforming unit that can increase or decrease the elevation of a certain point, or just build a wall that is wide and tall enough to be buildable) they will become a cost effective way to siege what will be an otherwise very difficult to assault position.
When/If the SYs decide the include the ability to dynamically alter terrain to your benifit (actually have a terraforming unit that can increase or decrease the elevation of a certain point, or just build a wall that is wide and tall enough to be buildable) they will become a cost effective way to siege what will be an otherwise very difficult to assault position.
hovers FTW!-
PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
When i finished the map of Island Omega, i tested it with you, if you remember. You we're doing fine in the game but eventually lost and even got somewhat upset because it seemed like you were doing better than me. But then i watched the replay and things weren't going so much as we were thinking in-game.mongus wrote:...
The hover const ship is fast moving and a fast builder, it also can build water mexes and some other water related structures (which const planes cant).
...
Hovers are just a hidden danger, (worth the risk of start with them when possible).
- You pushed straight to hovercrafts while i went vehicles. It took you lots of time to push the factory. If i had rushed a scout to your base (stupid me), it would have done serious damage as your comm was tied to the slow building factory.
- While you were strugling to finish the factory and later build some few hovers, i took control of a great extension of land and that extra metal gave me my extra boat factory, boats, pop-up cannon and later my lvl-2 factory.
- You, on the other side, in the tide most favorable to you when you were finally producing hovers and doing me hit-and-run strikes with the hovers that can cross over the land as run away from my boats, weren't expanding, mostly because the hover builders are very expensive and you couldn't afford many. We were both extremely streched. You eventually had to do that with the slow moving comander and removed him from your base. (by what i remember from the replay, the game was inclined to your loss by that time)
Hovercrafts, in XTA, are very good weapons to have in maps like Island Omega. However, i think that the most limiting factor about hovercrafts is the builder which is expensive (and doesn't build lvl-2 stuff). This is very serious in the early game when we need to expand by building lots of mexxes, MTs, some Llts and Hlts, pop-ups, etc.
Last edited by PauloMorfeo on 10 Oct 2005, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
sure, yeah i think it was MOnG who went hovers 
that com kill was exactly what i was aiming for with those minimines :)
http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=1596
that com kill was exactly what i was aiming for with those minimines :)http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=1596
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HellToupee
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 01 May 2005, 01:27
both gg at alpha and omega.
i took the risk of going hovers on both, knowing i had a bit of time till the enemy got to my base.
btw.. a hover scout can kill 2 jeffys with a bit of luck!
and the hover const is the fastest moving ground const. and faster than adv. kbot to nanolathe!
still think i lost bc lacked time, or made silly mistakes :X
and now that im here..
a hover trasport can carry:
8 aks
8 pyros
8 cans
5 sumos
5 reapers
5 croaks...
how about letting it be able to carry more lvl 1 units, like 10-15 aks.
or use the weight of the units to detemine how many can be carried?
i took the risk of going hovers on both, knowing i had a bit of time till the enemy got to my base.
btw.. a hover scout can kill 2 jeffys with a bit of luck!
and the hover const is the fastest moving ground const. and faster than adv. kbot to nanolathe!
still think i lost bc lacked time, or made silly mistakes :X
and now that im here..
a hover trasport can carry:
8 aks
8 pyros
8 cans
5 sumos
5 reapers
5 croaks...
how about letting it be able to carry more lvl 1 units, like 10-15 aks.
or use the weight of the units to detemine how many can be carried?
Here are my thoughts...which for the most part, agree with everyone else.
Bombers are useless. If I were to take 1 bomber and try to bomb a regular mex, it would only die 4/5 the time. To me, that is retarded. The other 1/5 the mex survives, even after a perfect bomb drop. I think hp and speed wise they are ok. But the bombs need to be way stronger. 30 of them cannot kill 1 doomsday, even if half of them die, the doomsday should be wasted, not be at half life still.
Vulcs and buzzies. Useless. I have built these and what a waste of res. I had units attacking me from 3-4 screens away, within the range of the weapon, and they WOULD NOT ATTACK. Only when the units came up next to it would it turn, but they were too close to hit now. That, and they are highly inaccurate and doesn't do enuff damage when hit. These things are supposed to eat krogs and land units up lik popcorn! They are just a big large paper weight.
BB and timmy: They are ok to me except for one fact. They do not do enough damage. You can pound away at a HLT and not kill it? These things are meant to kill structures! But with 2 or so cons to repair the structure, they will never die. BB's are supposed to be a feared, 1 hit monster on structures. 3 bull dogs are better against a hlt. Heck, gols are a MUCH better investment as they are mobile bb's that are way more accurate and do plenty of damage and have a ton of armor.
Mavricks: They seriously need a power boost. They are too weak against even lv 1 units.
Jeffies, weasels: Pretty much the same thing as everyone else. Way overpowered.
Warriors: To fast.
Necros: They shouldn't be able to build in my opinion, same for farks. But thats just me.
Skeets: Way too strong. 10 of them can take out 3-4 destoyers easily. Hell, even cruisers die to a batch of skeets. The plasma type ships need a damage boost, just a small one, like an extra 20-30%.
Anyway, thats how I feel.
Bombers are useless. If I were to take 1 bomber and try to bomb a regular mex, it would only die 4/5 the time. To me, that is retarded. The other 1/5 the mex survives, even after a perfect bomb drop. I think hp and speed wise they are ok. But the bombs need to be way stronger. 30 of them cannot kill 1 doomsday, even if half of them die, the doomsday should be wasted, not be at half life still.
Vulcs and buzzies. Useless. I have built these and what a waste of res. I had units attacking me from 3-4 screens away, within the range of the weapon, and they WOULD NOT ATTACK. Only when the units came up next to it would it turn, but they were too close to hit now. That, and they are highly inaccurate and doesn't do enuff damage when hit. These things are supposed to eat krogs and land units up lik popcorn! They are just a big large paper weight.
BB and timmy: They are ok to me except for one fact. They do not do enough damage. You can pound away at a HLT and not kill it? These things are meant to kill structures! But with 2 or so cons to repair the structure, they will never die. BB's are supposed to be a feared, 1 hit monster on structures. 3 bull dogs are better against a hlt. Heck, gols are a MUCH better investment as they are mobile bb's that are way more accurate and do plenty of damage and have a ton of armor.
Mavricks: They seriously need a power boost. They are too weak against even lv 1 units.
Jeffies, weasels: Pretty much the same thing as everyone else. Way overpowered.
Warriors: To fast.
Necros: They shouldn't be able to build in my opinion, same for farks. But thats just me.
Skeets: Way too strong. 10 of them can take out 3-4 destoyers easily. Hell, even cruisers die to a batch of skeets. The plasma type ships need a damage boost, just a small one, like an extra 20-30%.
Anyway, thats how I feel.
BadMan: I disagree with you on most points, but agree on a few.
Bombers: I agree with you somewhat, though I think you are exaggerating a bit, bombers really aren't very good(though I would say all air power in general needs to be toned down).
Vulcans: I agree wholeheartedly.
BBs: Great for attacking long-range defenses and pounding the enemy base. It will eventually force the enemy's hand if they don't want to lose to attrition because it will kill any weak units and structures in the base.
Mavericks: I've seen these used to great effect, they deal damage extremely quickly at very good range.
Jeffies/Weasels: The fast scout kbots are actually the better units, better range and versatility. A couple laser towers or a few missile kbots will stop weasels.
Warriors: I think these are just about right, I've seen them used well, and I've seen them obliterated.
Necros/Farks: I very much like the role they have now. They are extremely useful support units and I normally build them fairly soon after I reach lvl2.
Skeets: I generally avoid water maps, so I can't really comment on these due to lack of experience.
Bombers: I agree with you somewhat, though I think you are exaggerating a bit, bombers really aren't very good(though I would say all air power in general needs to be toned down).
Vulcans: I agree wholeheartedly.
BBs: Great for attacking long-range defenses and pounding the enemy base. It will eventually force the enemy's hand if they don't want to lose to attrition because it will kill any weak units and structures in the base.
Mavericks: I've seen these used to great effect, they deal damage extremely quickly at very good range.
Jeffies/Weasels: The fast scout kbots are actually the better units, better range and versatility. A couple laser towers or a few missile kbots will stop weasels.
Warriors: I think these are just about right, I've seen them used well, and I've seen them obliterated.
Necros/Farks: I very much like the role they have now. They are extremely useful support units and I normally build them fairly soon after I reach lvl2.
Skeets: I generally avoid water maps, so I can't really comment on these due to lack of experience.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
BB's, Timmy's, Vulcans and buzsaws are NOT used for demoing an enemy base. They are far more usefull to blow apart any weak structure and keep the enemy running around, trying to repair his damaged buildings! Its how it was in OTA, what whith the LRPC's smashing apart your Mexxes, and you running around trying to fix them. Then the attacking force comes in and your lasers dont work, and without the clsoe range support of laser fire your plasma guns get tosted. Then your base is smashed apart and your left thinking "I whish i had some kind of anti-BB attack force. Enter a unit i just thought up on the spot.
Surgical Strike Bombers (SSB's) whitch have one very powerfull weapon, but are prohibitably expenseve to build. HOWEVER they can blow up anything from a Mexx to a BB in one hit, so you can use them as a scalple to blow up that one annoying BB, or that one damned missle silo.
Counters: Flack, airplanes...ext.
Counters to the counters: Airplanes to strip away and distract the mobile defences, with maby some ground forces to gum up the flacks.
Also id like to point out that even if XTA isent the most balenced thing off all time, at least its FUN! I can join a game of TA: Spring and i will always (well... 95% of the time) have a good time.
Surgical Strike Bombers (SSB's) whitch have one very powerfull weapon, but are prohibitably expenseve to build. HOWEVER they can blow up anything from a Mexx to a BB in one hit, so you can use them as a scalple to blow up that one annoying BB, or that one damned missle silo.
Counters: Flack, airplanes...ext.
Counters to the counters: Airplanes to strip away and distract the mobile defences, with maby some ground forces to gum up the flacks.
Also id like to point out that even if XTA isent the most balenced thing off all time, at least its FUN! I can join a game of TA: Spring and i will always (well... 95% of the time) have a good time.