Fps off Checkbox?
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Drone_Fragger
- Posts: 1341
- Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 15:49
Actually I've always liked all sorts of unrealistic illogicalities in games (Quake is a very good example where you can turn in air as if you had a rocket booster) which are exploited by the pro players. It's like finding an easter egg in the game. It will give you advantage but often using these "bugs" require some skill. It's not easy to gain extra speed in Quake by hopping around. Rocket jumping isn't trivial either for a player who plays Quake for the first time.
Now should these be illogical and frankly be bugs in the engine/mod or whatever? Of course not. But there is no such game that hasn't these kind of abusable bugs that gain advantage.
But I strongly want to point out that there are two kinds of bugs that can be abused in a way to gain advantage. Bugs like FPS to gain 10% more range at the expense of not being able to do anything else at the same time. This category is acceptable IMHO and the reason why it is actually good is that IMHO it improves playability. I like the feature/bug. In a tight spot I might be able to gain advantage with this special trick/manoeuvre. It's like microing a flash to kill two flashes. It WILL cost you all the clicks on all the units you could've done while FPSing the one unit. Now obviously the guy doing the FPS trick believes that by doing so he gains an advantage over just clicking orders to all the rest of his units.
The bad kind of bugs are the kind of bugs that get you insanely amount of edge w/o corresponding drawback. Say gain 1000 free metal by shooting a specific spot in the ground with a specific unit.
It's all about the all-mighty BALANCE.
This is a fairly sensitive matter and there can never be a total agreement by all parties. The game can never be totally balanced since different players have different abilites to do different tasks. For example 1 flash could be worth 50 metal for me while for someone else it'd be only 20 since he's not so good at using the unit as I am. Then again he might perform better at Samsons than I do. Which makes me think Samsons are overpowered and him think flashes are overpowered.
Conclusion: I wouldn't mind an option to turn off FPSing or preferably the gain one has with it but I might not participate in such games so willingly as it impairs the gaming experience for _ME_.
Now should these be illogical and frankly be bugs in the engine/mod or whatever? Of course not. But there is no such game that hasn't these kind of abusable bugs that gain advantage.
But I strongly want to point out that there are two kinds of bugs that can be abused in a way to gain advantage. Bugs like FPS to gain 10% more range at the expense of not being able to do anything else at the same time. This category is acceptable IMHO and the reason why it is actually good is that IMHO it improves playability. I like the feature/bug. In a tight spot I might be able to gain advantage with this special trick/manoeuvre. It's like microing a flash to kill two flashes. It WILL cost you all the clicks on all the units you could've done while FPSing the one unit. Now obviously the guy doing the FPS trick believes that by doing so he gains an advantage over just clicking orders to all the rest of his units.
The bad kind of bugs are the kind of bugs that get you insanely amount of edge w/o corresponding drawback. Say gain 1000 free metal by shooting a specific spot in the ground with a specific unit.
It's all about the all-mighty BALANCE.
This is a fairly sensitive matter and there can never be a total agreement by all parties. The game can never be totally balanced since different players have different abilites to do different tasks. For example 1 flash could be worth 50 metal for me while for someone else it'd be only 20 since he's not so good at using the unit as I am. Then again he might perform better at Samsons than I do. Which makes me think Samsons are overpowered and him think flashes are overpowered.
Conclusion: I wouldn't mind an option to turn off FPSing or preferably the gain one has with it but I might not participate in such games so willingly as it impairs the gaming experience for _ME_.
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
wtf... where is the option for.. "no because if someone is using FPS they are dead in the water anyway..."
the ONLY clever usage of fps mode that I have seen was when someone flew their heavy bomber to ensure it dropped it's payload in a critical area... but if someone has time to fire correct to hit you across the map then you are not doing your job.
the ONLY clever usage of fps mode that I have seen was when someone flew their heavy bomber to ensure it dropped it's payload in a critical area... but if someone has time to fire correct to hit you across the map then you are not doing your job.
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Drone_Fragger
- Posts: 1341
- Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 15:49
Just for kixxe to get it:Kixxe wrote:... and this has to do with FPS abuse how?
The type of fps abuse you are talking about here, requires, that your enemy builds a defense tower "just outside" (its really close) your own defense tower.
That means he has to be really close to your base.
As someone else said, if you dont know what happens just in front of your own defense tower, you suck.
I do agree to that, but, finding an alternative cause to that, hm, very common "suckage" he talks about, leads me to beleive its the radar jammer range, instead of you sucking.
so:
FPS abuse requieres you to build defense tower really close to enemys' own.
Building in such situation, is possible only if your enemy is blind, sucks, or that part of the field is jammed.
As jammer ranges are so big in aa, its a major suspect of being the cause.
I asked for input from you, but nobody seems to have really watched the replay where such FPS abuse happens.
Nope, Mat was right. I simply wasn't doing enough scouting and had misremembered the range of the Arm L1 jammers. The L2 jammers are big enough to do this, the L1 ones aren't. By the time the L2 jammers roll out, it's a moot point.mongus wrote:As jammer ranges are so big in aa, its a major suspect of being the cause.
Let me iterate:
FPS utilization is not restricted to one player or the other. It is available and known to all players.
To anyone new to the game, it is not more well-known than shift-clicking or alt-clicking to line up those pretty formations. newbies often wonder how someone can get such formations so nicely. Vets can use shift and alt-clickign to their advantage. Should shift and alt-clickingfor formations be disabled?
the "repeat" command, too, is often used by more experienced players to far, far greater effect than a newbie could ever use it. If one players decides to use repeat-load-unload to shift large numbers of units across the map very quickly, when the other player has no idea how to use repeat command... is this unsportsmanlike? Is this cheating? Should the repeat command be removed?
By your guys' logic, the shift click, alt click, and repeat commands should all be removed.
Also: I have won many many games by rushing an AK over to the other guy's base and dancing around his factory, keeping his factory between my AK and his commander. I can many times end the game in the first five minutes by dancing like this.
Let me iterate your argument: You are saying that if a player is completely pwnzzorred by some feature he hsa no idea how to use and has no idea exists- that feature should be removed.
FPS utilization is not restricted to one player or the other. It is available and known to all players.
To anyone new to the game, it is not more well-known than shift-clicking or alt-clicking to line up those pretty formations. newbies often wonder how someone can get such formations so nicely. Vets can use shift and alt-clickign to their advantage. Should shift and alt-clickingfor formations be disabled?
the "repeat" command, too, is often used by more experienced players to far, far greater effect than a newbie could ever use it. If one players decides to use repeat-load-unload to shift large numbers of units across the map very quickly, when the other player has no idea how to use repeat command... is this unsportsmanlike? Is this cheating? Should the repeat command be removed?
By your guys' logic, the shift click, alt click, and repeat commands should all be removed.
Also: I have won many many games by rushing an AK over to the other guy's base and dancing around his factory, keeping his factory between my AK and his commander. I can many times end the game in the first five minutes by dancing like this.
Let me iterate your argument: You are saying that if a player is completely pwnzzorred by some feature he hsa no idea how to use and has no idea exists- that feature should be removed.
No, they're documented, official, intentional features that anyone can find out about in under five minutes by reading the manual.Dragon45 wrote:To anyone new to the game, it is not more well-known than shift-clicking or alt-clicking to line up those pretty formations. newbies often wonder how someone can get such formations so nicely. Vets can use shift and alt-clickign to their advantage. Should shift and alt-clickingfor formations be disabled?
No. It's a documented, official, intentional feature that anyone can find out about in under five minutes by reading the manual.the "repeat" command, too, is often used by more experienced players to far, far greater effect than a newbie could ever use it. If one players decides to use repeat-load-unload to shift large numbers of units across the map very quickly, when the other player has no idea how to use repeat command... is this unsportsmanlike? Is this cheating? Should the repeat command be removed?
By no means. This is a stupid claim.By your guys' logic, the shift click, alt click, and repeat commands should all be removed.
So? This is using existing, documented commands and features to achieve a beneficial result.Also: I have won many many games by rushing an AK over to the other guy's base and dancing around his factory, keeping his factory between my AK and his commander. I can many times end the game in the first five minutes by dancing like this.
The problem here is that there is an undocumented, apparently accidental way of using the game controls to get a unit to do something that it should not, according to the documentation, be able to do. (Fire at and damage a target beyond its maximum weapon range) Whether this is a serious problem or not is a matter of debate. However, until it is labelled an official feature and added to the relevant manuals so anyone can learn about it by reading them, it is a problem.
Using Spring. Specifically, the section on movement.mongus wrote:lolz what manuals?
only place you can find about the alt thingy was in the "thinkgs you may not know" thread. some other usefull tricks in there aswell.
It's close to a manual.
But is *is* in the wiki...
Did you even read it?
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Using_ ... ction_Keys
Did you even read it?
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Using_ ... ction_Keys
But is *is* in the wiki...The wiki is the closest thing we have to a manual, and extended FPS ranges are not in the wiki.
Did you even read it?
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Using_ ... ction_Keys
Sorry, it's not. If you want to add it, that's fine... But it shouldn't be, unless the developers have said that this is an official feature, not a bug, and will remain in the game permanently.Dragon45 wrote:But is *is* in the wiki...
Did you even read it?
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Using_ ... ction_Keys
Also, if you didn't notice, the Wiki has a detailed revision history, so you can see every change made and when it was made. So trying to score a point by making a quick edit and saying "See, it's been there all along!" isn't clever. It's just lame. Never mind that you tried to be even more clever by burying it in "General Function Keys" (so it was there but most newbies wouldn't notice) instead of putting it in the FPS Mode or Attack sections where it belongs.
Yes, I just wiped out your tiny little edit. Deal. I'd just spent about an hour making a bunch of corrections and fixes to that article so there would be something approaching a proper, readable manual.