Players and a lack of testicular fortitude.

[AF]

*_*

Caydr, I do not blame the 8800 hardware, I blame the 8800 drivers, software.

Theres a bgi fdifference.

In the mean time your blaming vista, vista isnt the cause. There are plenty of people with drivers that crash under 8800s and ATI 2900's under XP, only when they crash instead of a balloon popup in theri taskbar, they get a black screen or a BSOD.

So while I've had my 8800 far longer than you have, and ahve researched this extensively, youve sat flaming on the forums talking about AA 2.5 and bragging about your knowledge of hardware pricetags quoting graphs and tables from a few sites.

But the biggest point fo all:

You dont take anything in, not even the very simple biggest bits that matter the most that take say 4-5 words to sum up and come back over and over again.

For example, smoth blaming AA for gundam not being played, you dont listen, its not true! smoth keeps saying it isnt true, he has even posted big threads refuting it, he even says he likes gundam not being played and doesnt want it to have a massive following. Yet he always quashes it and you always bring it back up again a week later as if nobodies ever mentioned it before.

And its the same with most of your other arguements, they can be cataloged and refered to over and over again, do you not get tired of raising a point, having it quashed then raising it again?

[smoth]

Not entirely true sleska, kdr can tell you that if an arguement is strong enough I will make changes. However, some change requests fall into the asinine... stuff like: "MAKE the gundam 2X larger then other units"

Of course, I can agrea with you about players and balance issues, I have heard many many complaints about the flying commanders size and firepower. After several people have played with them they love them but it is hard to explain it.

[Neuralize]

Ah, good show AF. I thought maybe I was being a little heavy handed just picking on Smoth, but that balances things out nicely.

[AF]

thankyou ^_^

[rattle]

Hahah

[Guessmyname]

*sniggers*

[CautionToTheWind]

oh the wit...

[Caydr]

AF, you use vista and you have computer problems. Vista causes computer problems. It's nonsense to blame drivers alone for computer problems when the underlying OS is so broken. The adoption rate of Vista among gamer is less than 7.5% and only 2.05% have a DirectX10 card (not 2% of 7.5%, but 2% overall). When Vista/DX10 adoption is basically nill, how can you even expect Nvidia could a) make it a priority or b) do effective bugfixing? If I was nvidia, I would focus on making the largest number of people possible happy, it's only sensible. Until Vista at least becomes "usable" in a practical sense, there is no reason for them to even work on it. Vista is a disaster. They'd be better off working on improving betamax video quality.

So while I've had my 8800 far longer than you have, and ahve researched this extensively, youve sat flaming on the forums talking about AA 2.5 and bragging about your knowledge of hardware pricetags quoting graphs and tables from a few sites.

AA 2.5, doesn't exist. v.v I'm not flaming anyone and I don't think I've flamed anything but Vista in the last few months. On the contrary I've provided assistance to people looking to upgrade their computer. Is it not better to have professional advice (I build computers on the side) than to just go out and buy, as one person put it, the one with the most megahertz?

Brain chart was awesome though! I'll reply to smoth's bit later, it's too long for me to even read just now. I've got some forum searching to do if he needs proof of each point :-/

(tellytubbies = teletubbies iirc)

[Muzic]

Its not nonsense to blame driver even if Vista sucks. Hell..all my bluescreens and computer errors are all driver related.+


Oh..and I do not support vista in anyway : P

[Machiosabre]

This makes me want to get vista out of spite, if I was getting a new pc, and I am, so I will.

[Neddie]

This makes me want to get vista out of spite, if I was getting a new pc, and I am, so I will.

I'm even going to give it a shot.

[AF]

Caydr you obviously dont know what your talking about, and neitehr do you Muzic.


@Muzic:

BSOD are caused by 2 things:

Hardware instability: These generate a set of stopcodes which can then be googled to find out what sort of hardware problem they are. If you find a hardware related stopcode then you have dodgy equipment.

Drivers or bad programs: These are generated when programs run amuck and they start to itnerfere with the internals of the windows kernel. The kernel detects this and shuts down to prevent further damage, giving a BSOD.

So no, you wont get a BSOD from Vista unless you install bad programs and drivers. That's how its always been, that's how it worked with XP and 2000 and Server 2003 and all the other windows OS' since the switch to the 2000 NT kernel.

@Caydr:

Have your an Vista for the last 6 months?

Vista is not a broken OS, if anything tis the most complete OS microsoft has ever released, but that completeness is spoiled by numerous companies who simply haven't made an effort to update their drivers causing the usual printer nightmare.

SO lets make a list of the problems I've had with Vista:

1 Apple Quicktime and itunes make use a a jscript component for their windows installers that microsoft depreciated a few years ago. Since most installers stopped using it microsoft stopped registering the unneeded components in order to kill off the horrible practice.

But sadly Apple and Adobe ignored these and use jscript in their installers specifically for Vista versions of their quicktime and CS3 installers, among other issues with their installers, such as buggy upgrade setups from CS2->CS3 requiring a small armada of tools to get rid of previous flash player, adobe and macromedia products.

Was this Vistas fault? Is microsoft to blame for making a big song and dance to companies about jscript being disabled in Vista then companies going and using it anyway?


2Codeblocks and mingw32 use command line parameters incorrectly, however XP lets them get away with it. Vista however keeps these sorts of things under stricter rules to keep security tight but codeblocks runs foul of these basic rules.

Fixing codeblocks can be done by properly setting an environment variable using instructions on a blog. Is this Vistas fault? Or codeblocks for misusing command line parameters, and not being updated for a year?

And now for the big one:

3) Nvidia drivers and other graphics card drivers

Ok so your all saying this isnt nvidias fault its vistas fault! Wrong!

If it was vistas fault, why do these TDR driver crashes vanish a ssoona s you sue all the standard generic drivers microsoft wrote? Why do they only popup when that large nvidia or ATI driver gets added? Why do the errors dissapear as soon as you uninstall the nvidia drivers?

Well I would indeed use the default vista graphics drivers, but I want my 1680x1050 screen resolution and my directx9/10/OGL.

But things are indeed improving! I can reduce the nubme rof these errors I get by installing newer nvidia drivers, even though Vista itself is still the same, no patches or updates installed for Vista to have caused the change.

Whatsmore why does a system designed specifically to catch graphics driver catches reference an nvidia driver in all the errors that occur if its Vista at fault? Oh my what fi ti IS the driver and not vista?!

Oh wait LOOK its a big nvidia statement taking responsibility for the errors!

Caydr I cant believe you didnt notice the big stickies in the nvidia forums talking about TDR errors and how they're caused by the nvidia driver crashing.


Vista is not broken. It just the graphics drivers. Other than that, Vista is great. Its far more secure than XP, has masses of little things that just improve the whole UI, and stands to deliver faster performance than XP for numerous things once sp1 has arrived. Vista is the shape of things to come.

So why are all the companies focusing on Vista? After all Vista is the shape of things to come and most new users will get vista, already more users upgraded to vista in the last month than there are users in the Mac OS X user base.

So what if the user base for Vista is still less than 10%, its only been released a few months. So what if dx10 capable users still make up a fraction of the user base, those are flagship video cards of big companies. Those are the cards which future cards will be based on, the cards that people are starting to adopt, cards which will soon become mainstream standard.

So you want them to spend their time on older redundant cards? You want them to place legacy drivers as their priority? Do you want people to buy old nvidia cards or the new 8800? Please look at the brain picture again for the answer.


Is Vista broken? No.

Caydr, have your an Vista? Have you researched the problems with the nvidia drivers extensively? Or have you just sat infront of a crappy XP logo and insisted Vista is too buggy without even trying it out? Or are you basing your opinion on some buggy longhorn alpha released a year or two ago?

You cannot sit there as an un-experienced XP user and tell me an experienced Vista user that vista is broken. You cant have an opinion, you haven't even ran it for any length of time, Don't pass judgement untill you've tried it out. Vista is superior to XP. I know, I've tried it, I've ran it on my main PC since February. 7 months. I've had an 8800GTS 640MB too for 7 months on Vista. You've had your 8800 for I dunno 4 months maybe 3?

So please shutup untill you actually have a vague idea about what you're talking about. Reading endless hardware reviews doesn't make you an expert. I've actually used and experienced the stuff I can talk about these things because I've done them for long periods of time.

Im a Vista user with an 8800, I installed Vista 2 days after it was released on a fresh newly built PC. Dont you dare talk down and lecture me about my PC when you dont even run Vista, and have an inferior graphics card.

Please, post pictures of you and your 8800GTS 320MB running Vista. Please, post a list of reasons why Vista is broken that can be backed up that are purely opinionated such a aero sucks (doesn't count, just turn aero off), or the price (same applies for XP and 2000 etc, if you can get a new OS for free do so otherwise dont spend hundreds on one).

[CautionToTheWind]

AF, i can only estimate how crappy Vista is and how much it has irritated you over the months by the size of your Vista defense. I mean damm, you must have suffered a lot.

[AF]

No, I an irritated by people with no experience saying Vista is crap with nothing to back it up, and dismissing me as a liar because they dont like my conclusion.

You cant judge Vista untill you've properly tried it, a few weeks or so. If you havent ran a PC with Vista for at least 2-3 weeks fulltime as your main PC then you have no right to criticize anything but its pricetag.

[Tim Blokdijk]

I have seen a few screenshots and a YouTube vid on that new interface, my conclusion: Vista sucks



Alright, Alright I will actually use an argument.
Vista sucks as it needs many hundreds of individual company's to update their software before the os can be used. That is just a total failure of the system, the open source world fixes this by enabling everybody to update the software.

[AF]

Most programs need no changes, the compatability for XP->Vista is much better than 2000/98->XP.

The only programs that needed Vista specific additions were VS2005 and the codeblocks fix.

[aGorm]

I dont know about bad drivers (cause I only have vista on my laptop, and its not ment to be a powerhouse so i anit got a card worth it throughing a wobbly) However I can say that over trhge last week of using it while my PC is down, I much prefer the XP gui layout. Infact I much prefer the 98 layout in truth and always set XP back to that. Why the smeg is everything in vista suddenly hidden under a completly new name, in a completly differnt place I dont know. I took me 5 minuets to track down control pannel for crying out loud...

but that i can forgive.

What realy gets my gote is... POPUP "We need to check you just click teh Ok button there mate" press yes , POPUP "great you clicked yes thats real great, but we just wanna double check you want to add this component to" press yes "thats great, do you mind if you press that button one more time, im realy lovin your pressing" presses yes again...

I mean... come on. How many times does it have to ask you if your sure you want to friggin do something... "YES I PUT THE CD IN YOU RETARED OS OF COURSE I WANT TO INSTALL IT, AND OF COURSE ITS FRIGGIN SAFE."

Anyway.. if it wernt for the fact i need a windows of some sort on the laptop i would have totaly wiped it and stuck just linux.

As it is... I'll have to bare with dule boot...

aGorm

[DJ]

What realy gets my gote is... POPUP "We need to check you just click teh Ok button there mate" press yes , POPUP "great you clicked yes thats real great, but we just wanna double check you want to add this component to" press yes "thats great, do you mind if you press that button one more time, im realy lovin your pressing" presses yes again...

Vista is configured for total noobs who go around clicking stuff they shouldn't. Yes that is f*cking irratating for us but you have to bare in mind that the total noobs make up about 90% of the user base. I'm not a massive fan of Vista but I would use it on my mums pc for instance.

As far as the pop ups go it is possible to configure Vista not to ask for permission, the point is that Vista is meant to be noob proof by default unless you tell it otherwise. If you don't bother to configure it you won't get anywhere. -Well at least you won't get anywhere without three dialog boxes asking you where your trying to go...

I'm not a massive Vista fan by any means but it seems there are two sorts of people on this forum. People who don't like Vista for genuine reasons and who have used it and those who dislike it because it is fashionable to do so. If you want a quality operating system designed for expert use then use linux, if you can't then except that windows has to look after the lowest common denominator and move on...

[AF]

goto control panel (start->control panel) and goto classic view, then pick users accounts, then "Turn UserAccount Control On or Off".

Part fo the idea is that shady program that just used a backdoor to your comp has now spawned a UAC popup rather than a FORMAT C:\ command.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

people who use apple will die cold and alone