Illegal Immigrants

[PicassoCT]

A point against the "Ilegal Imigrants" steal our Work...

That is part of the System - Free Trade means Free Moving of Goods & People in both Directions - sorry if it is hard to accept but 1/6 of Humanity could support (with robotic, highly mechanized Work) the Remaining 5/6 with Goods...

The work is free to move, and it moves to the cheapest point on earth. If you would replace the Workers on the Farms & in the Factorys (who get a third world Pay anyway) with Americans, the result would only be a) bankrupt or b) moving of the Factory/Farm into another Country. So this thing is nothing unexpected- such stuff happens when "subventions" fall, taxes on goods are erased and borders are opened by Force of the Market (this (all of the sudden) evil thing workx bothsides... bloodyhell, how surprising )

What do we learn out of it ? Nothing. Can we change the Situation ? Nope.
So what to do ? Blame Canada! Mexicans are in Truth disguised Canadians!!

[Snipawolf]

On the fourth page and fireballs haven't been hurled yet? How interesting.

[Zpock]

On the fourth page and fireballs haven't been hurled yet? How interesting.

Well, you can try an abortion thread, maybe that will get what you want.

[Snipawolf]

Nah, nah, its just surprising we have made it to the fourth page without flames..

[Cabbage]

Hows that?

[PicassoCT]

Good to know the Pyromaniacs are not happy
Is this Smoke i smell ?

[Decimator]

On the fourth page and fireballs haven't been hurled yet? How interesting.

I imagine it's because most of us here are fairly mature. Spring seems to have a disproportionate number of 20+ year olds.

[Snipawolf]

No, I've seen things fall apart after the first 4 posts, and the spring community hasn't lost any of the poeple I saw do it. So, maybe poeple here are getting more mature? Congratulations, you know who you are

Edit: BTW, after your age 12, your age has nothing to do with your maturity... That is my own opinion, and I believe it to be completely true.

[rattle]

Idiots come of any age...

[smoth]

*nuked*

[Zpock]

On the fourth page and fireballs haven't been hurled yet? How interesting.

I imagine it's because most of us here are fairly mature. Spring seems to have a disproportionate number of 20+ year olds.

The Spring community is a bastion of freedom, thoughtfullness, creativity, decency and open source formed by good people. It may be small, but it's good. Look at the GPGs boards where there's mostly retards all around and when miraculasly a good thread is made, it gets mysteriously deleted. Corporate scum...

[Felix the Cat]

On the fourth page and fireballs haven't been hurled yet? How interesting.

Wrong. Enter the Human Fireball (c)!

This fails, How many of these stupid threads do we have to have before everyone realizes that POLITICAL DISCUSSION is fail. Look all of you are coming to this thread with preconcieved OPINIONS not facts, you dont have anything to discuss. You are already convinced of your own rightness and you have come here to tell the other doofuses that they are wrong and you are right, you have not come here to try and hash out how it ought to be, or discuss anything, you will not be swayed. This is not a discussion, we cant have a Political discussion. This community has issues discussing mods, and you people want to try and discuss something as controversial and inflamitory as politics. This is ridiculous, can we just ban this sort of discussion, it does nothing but degenerate into flame wars. I have seen several dozen political discussion threads crop up, and NOT a single one has been a civil discussion of anything, in the end they were all angry rants. In such a small secular community discussion of anything is difficult, discussion of something so polarizing as politics is tantimount to fail. Just lock this, it is not going to get anywhere, nothing is being discussed... Perhaps can we ban political discussion, or rename this section to off-topic arguments/flamewars and occasional silly stuff..

...I have to go now, I'll reply to Stanley when I return. Gotta buy cigarettes.

[hunterw]

close borders pls

[Felix the Cat]

close borders pls

open borders pls

*twig twig twig* ok going to buy cigarettes now for real

[Fanger]

felix youll need to try harder to start a flamewar kthnxbye..

[hunterw]

open borders pls

they already be open

[Felix the Cat]

felix youll need to try harder to start a flamewar kthnxbye..

fanger youll need to try harder to start a flamewar kthnxbye..

they already be open

Not open enough by any means.

Anyone should be able to walk up to a border crossing point, show identification, pass a quick medical identification and background check, and enter the United States.

Anyone who enters the United States, gets a job, works in it, and then can show proof that he or she has been gainfully employed for some arbitrary period of time (five years?) should become a naturalized citizen.

As far as the inevitable "welfare problem"... pick your entitlement poison. The US is rapidly losing its ability to support Social Security due to demographic changes. A massive influx of primarily young workers who will be duly taxed would solve that problem.

As a libertarian, I support a free flow of people, goods, and capital between the United States and Mexico (just as I support a free flow of people and capital between any two states in the world).

Disclaimer: this is a point of disagreement in the libertarian community. I believe that the only true libertarian stance is mine... but calling things "the only true libertarian stance" is somewhat of an art form in the libertarian community. Many libertarians believe that the borders should be closed, because an influx of immigrants will create a larger demand for public services and thus an expansion of the government.

[FoeOfTheBee]

Many libertarians believe that the borders should be closed, because an influx of immigrants will create a larger demand for public services and thus an expansion of the government.

I think this is the correct analysis. You can see this in the voting patterns of immigrant groups. Most countries are far more statist than the US, and immigration flows will strengthen statist trends.

I ran a few gss cross tabs and confirmed this, feel free to do the same. http://sda.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/hsda?harcsda+gss02

[SpikedHelmet]

And the proper way to combat that would be to greatly reduce the size and power of the services sector and focus workers in industry. More people making products, less people making money by servicing products.

[Felix the Cat]

And the proper way to combat that would be to greatly reduce the size and power of the services sector and focus workers in industry. More people making products, less people making money by servicing products.

...but there's not really a need for additional labor in industry due to increased mechanization increasing the per-man-hour productivity of workers. You could have 10,000 people work at an auto factory, but it would be more expensive than having 3,000 plus robotic assemblers and streamlined systems engineering.

The marginal benefit of adding additional workers to an industrial activity declines rapidly above a certain point in today's technological environment. The market has already determined that the number of people employed in industrial activities is roughly at the break-even point. When the marginal benefit of an additional employee exceeds the marginal cost, we see hiring; when it's the other way around we see layoffs.

Oddly enough, allowing open immigration would increase the number of workers employed in industry by lowering the marginal cost of adding an additional employee because of an increased pool of available labor. The effect would be furthered by eliminating the minimum wage and payroll taxes.