REAL war protest

[Zoombie]

Fang said talking about polotics should not be allowed...on the FORUM!

FO-RUM. As in: A place where a bunch of nerds get together to talk about vidio games and such. Not a place for polotics to be argued endlessly.

The thing that rubs my ass is that in high schools, morons are teaching kids that more US soldiers have died in Iraq than died in World War 2

Thats just stupid.

Also Spiked...weren't you saying something along the lines of 'Every terrist must be killed' a while ago? Or am I going crazy and mixing you up with someone else.

Also, Spiked, you're little speach about violence only paints you as a facist. It's the almost exact shpeial used in the novel Starship Troopers. NOT THE MOVIE. I have to say that again, cause I'm sure someone is going to not read that. NOT. THE. MOVIE!

Now that that's clear, onto my next point. What about Gahndi? He didn't raise a finger in violent protest, and yet he fought Imperializem much much better than any terroist.

"Evil begets Evil. Shooting will only make it stronger" (The person to tell me where that is from gets a cookie)

This idea is quite true, despite where it came from. Imagine this: You go through with your plan and try to start an 'innsurrection' against the 'evil and despotic US Goverment'. Guess what happens? If the goverment is even half despotic, than they'd shoot you in some dark allyway (because, unlike most terroists, you live here and they have records. Even a free society has tax records) and then they'd proccide to show how you are an evil, viel terroist that wanted to destroy the american way of life so completely that you'd jump up and down on the apple pie.

Then what? Well a lot of people would flock to the 'evil, despotic, imperialistic' banner and you'd be counter productive!


But thats all a moot point because I think this threat is little more than a wimpy attempt to get some attention.


Why'd I post all that then? D'oh!

[SpikedHelmet]

Oo, quotes!

"War is the highest form of struggle for resolving contradictions, when they have developed to a certain stage, between classes, nations, states, or political groups..."

"War is the continuation of politics."

"The seizure of power by armed force, the settlement of the issue by war, is the central task and the highest form of revolution."

"We are advocates of the abolition of war, we do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun."

"War, this monster of mutual slaughter among men, will be finally eliminated by the progress of human society, and in the not too distant future too. But there is only one way to eliminate it and that is to oppose war with war, to oppose counterrevolutionary war with revolutionary war, to oppose national counter-revolutionary war with national revolutionary war, and to oppose counter-revolutionary class war with revolutionary class war.... When human society advances to the point where classes and states are eliminated, there will be no more wars, counter-revolutionary or revolutionary, unjust or just; that will be the era of perpetual peace for mankind."

"Our attitude on this question [of war] is the same as our attitude towards any disturbance: first, we are against it; second, we are not afraid of it."

Anyone who guesses where all of THOSE quotes come from gets a red cookie! Here's a hint:

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

What exactly did Ghandi do? What did he accomplish? Is not India the world's largest capitalist democracy today? Yeah, he sure accomplished a lot. India is such a shining example of what peaceful civil disobedience can accomplish.

Also, Spiked, you're little speach about violence only paints you as a facist.

Saying that I will not back down against imperialist aggression, and have no quams about fighting it, makes me a fascist?

[Zoombie]

I was thinking about the whole: "Violence solves everything" rant. You're a anti-imperialistic fascist. Or an attention whore.

Or both

[Peet]

I love the smell of trollin' in the mornin' ^__^

[SwiftSpear]

I'm fucking sick of the neo-nazi self proclaimed forum mod death squad running around demanding discussion threads to be locked. This thread had not degraded into flames at all until you fucks got here. I'm not locking threads based on the fact that they are subjected on complicated and widely disputed issues. The next time I see people trying to intentionally pull a thread into flames because they want it locked I'm just banning them, I don't have patience to deal with the shit slinging of people who are too stupid to discuss things maturely. This isn't your imaginary other forum you attend, our rules are different, our community is different, we will run things in a way that works here and is tailored to here, we have no regard for rules concocted up at other forums because they were respectively appropriate in those groups of people.

I'm totally and utterly unwilling to entertain the idea that intelligent discussion on controversial subjects is impossible here until it's been proved otherwise. From my experience so far it's entirely possible and works quite well in most situations until someone decides to back seat mod and demand the thread closed.

Spiked: Violence was the only solution that would have stopped the nazi's but you don't have to go very far to see that the horrors of the second world war were not immensely preferable to a German run world. Honestly most likely even if the Germans had won the war, 40 years down the line it's not like the world ends, new faces defending different ideals eventually still rise to power when the inevitable cracks form in the nazi ruling system and people are unwilling to any longer tolerate a system of rule that doesn't allow them nearly any freedoms. One way or the other things come full circle. We didn't enter WW2 to protect human life and keep the world safe, we entered it to protect our ideals of freedom and our way of life. But the reality is an ideal can't be killed by a governing body. It can only, at best, be suppressed from raising to majority acceptance.

Irrelevant of all that. Attacking the American military from within is useless because it will just be announced as terrorism, will increase support for the military from society as a whole, will quickly result in the perpetrators being arrested/killed, and will inevitably do negligible damage to the actual American war machine. It's not like us civilians have any weapons of mass destruction we can drop on an American war base somewhere and decimate 80% of the on base equipment there. In reality you'd be very lucky to even temporarily disable a single tank and kill a dozen soldiers. The reality of the situation is that Americans randomly up and attacking the government is not going to spark a revolution, most people just don't hate their government that much, and many of those who do wouldn't attack them either way due to being pussies or unarmed. After the media gets through with everything you're just portrayed as lunatics anyways, no one would be willing to entertain the projection of men willing to kill fellow Americans as mayrders anyways. It's a lose lose situation, you're far better off working through the media and political centers to your own goal, because in the end of the day at least you remain free and alive to keep pursuing that goal.

[Candleman]

I like how your little quote list completely sidestepped Zoombie's points.

[Felix the Cat]

"A witty quote proves nothing." - Voltaire

[Zoombie]

I'm sorry about the attention whore comment. That was uncalled for.

Now on the war in Iraq, one must not simply count up the negatives. You also have to count up the positives. Saddam is out of power. Thats a good, definitely. American troops are trying to build roads, schools, irrigation and so on. It's not enough to 'make up' for the deaths caused by the war...I don't think anything can do that. But it is something. And in this world, something is all we can seem to get...

[Neddie]

Quotation is the last resort of those with nothing original to say.

[Zoombie]

I have to quote that...

[Argh]

@Spiked:

What exactly did Ghandi do? What did he accomplish? Is not India the world's largest capitalist democracy today? Yeah, he sure accomplished a lot. India is such a shining example of what peaceful civil disobedience can accomplish.

...er, you are probably the only person posting in this thread that has a problem with that... India is a fairly peaceful state, that is growing in prosperity, has a functional democracy that keeps its huge groups of racial, ethnic and religious groups from being at one another's throats too often (hmm, sounds familiar) and is, generally, a good example of how things should work out. Is it perfect? No. Worker's Paradise? Well, life expectancy, literacy, poverty are all way down, but... no, not quite paradise. Still, it's a hell of a lot better than it used to be.

I'm sorry, but Communism is just another dead religion, dude- if you take your viewpoint seriously, then mainly I just feel sorry for you, to be honest, because you are in for a shock when you get a little older and have to deal with the expectations of the real world. Joining the Army is starting to sound more and more like you're just seeking an escape from reality, given your other posts about your life. At least it will give you a structured culture in which to grow up as a person... whether you like it or not.

But your current viewpoints read like some violent parody of the Amish. It's funny, naive, and sad at the same time. I remember being a knowitall wiseass at your age, too... but it doesn't buy diapers, feed your children, or pay the rent.

At least the Amish make decent cheese.

[j5mello]

At least the Amish make decent cheese.

+1

[Das Bruce]

You might consider the fact that fewer than 3000 US soldiers have died in iraq. That number is astoundingly low, and speaks to the professionalism and skill of our armed forces.

Astoundingly low yes, but I think there are other factors concerning it other than leet soldiers, although that plays a large part. Its not so much an offensive war anymore as a peacekeeping operation/occupation depending on who you ask.

[Fanger]

At least the Amish make decent cheese.

+1

[Peet]

@I'm sorry, but Communism is just another dead religion, dude-

Is there not a number of communist countries in the present world?

[Neddie]

None of them are functionally Communist. They merely refer to themselves vaguely as Communist.

[Argh]

If China is Communist any more, it's news to me. Last time I checked, they were busy converting themselves into capitalists who sell us cheap whatever-we-want, sending hundreds of thousands of their best and brightest HERE to learn how to become better at it... just like the Japanese did, not very long ago.

Only Cuba and North Korea still count, and they're both isolated hellholes that nobody takes seriously anyhow. North Korea had to build and test a NUCLEAR WEAPON to get everybody's attention. That's so desperate, and so sad, that it's like watching a one-armed man trying to clap.

Ok, and you could make the case the Hugo Chavez and his fellow idiots in South America represent a Communist resurgence, but frankly... meh... they're riding on the fact that their previous governments were slow-moving, corrupt, and not becoming smart capitalists fast enough, not on "the people's desire for liberation".

To coin a witty phrase: Shoot the capitalists, and you will discover that not only is there no free lunch, but that nobody will even sell it to you any more

[Fanger]

At least the Amish make decent cheese.

+1

[LathanStanley]

I've got many friends and family members STILL serving in the military, still fighting, and still dieing in Iraq, and around the world, all for a good intentions, no matter what kind of "bad light" the media and you typical anti-America fuckshits can spread on it.

I find this attitude of yours spiked, quite hateful, arrogant, and childish.

I tried to shut this discussion in my previous post logically, and not to spur my temper, but it didn't work.

I've got nothing else to say to you, and if I see you in the street, understand why I'll relentlessly punch you in the face repeatedly, and from here, don't bother asking me for favors anymore, ever.

[BlackLiger]

"Evil begets Evil. Shooting will only make it stronger" (The person to tell me where that is from gets a cookie)

Poke AF into giving me a cookie then, cause its from THE FIFTH ELEMENT!