Some sort of Boneyards style mapbased metagame would be thwe pwnage.Zoombie wrote:Maybe a metagame?
The Spring Project
Moderator: Moderators
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Bleh, Forboding, you've got a serious attitude problem if you can't actually counter an argument without throwing around hyperbole such as "stupid", "moronic", etc. You disagree? Fine. Disprove me. But don't act like a wanker while you're doing it, otherwise I'm going to be pretty disinclined to respond to any of your points. Like now.
I do not think removing "TA" from the name will make Spring any more or less likely to be sued. The fact is that Spring is distributing TA content, and is still effectively TA. That's where you are potentially going to be sued over - which is in itself unlikely. Removing "TA" from the name doesn't at all change the fact that you've got Mavericks firing at Instigators on maps like The Cold Place.
Even without the mods, or the maps, Spring is still TA. The way you control and order units, the design of construction, the resource model, the way units interact, everything.
Yes, it's its own engine. But it's still very much a homage to TA, and is still very much TA.
You guys can kick and scream about Multiple build orders, repeat commands and a few new weapons. The fact is that Spring is TA. The entire premise of it is TA. Everything about it is TA, with improvements and alterations. The improvements and alterations are certainly great. But it's like comparing Humans and Monkeys. On the surface they are very different, but their DNA is still 99% the same. Except that Spring still very much looks like TA.
I don't think "TA" should be dropped from the name, and I really haven't seen any arguments that say to the contrary. Most people refer to it as just "Spring", I know I do. But when I explain to someone what Spring is, you simply cannot do it without mentioning TA. Keeping the link with TA is essential, in my opinion.
Yes, perhaps somewhere well down the track, Spring will have evolved well away from TA so as to warrant not essentially being TA. Even then I would probably argue to keep TA by name, or by subtitle, simply because it is a matter of honouring Spring's roots. Spring simply wouldn't exist without TA. Abandoning that seems somewhat, callous and arrogant, I think.
I do not think removing "TA" from the name will make Spring any more or less likely to be sued. The fact is that Spring is distributing TA content, and is still effectively TA. That's where you are potentially going to be sued over - which is in itself unlikely. Removing "TA" from the name doesn't at all change the fact that you've got Mavericks firing at Instigators on maps like The Cold Place.
Even without the mods, or the maps, Spring is still TA. The way you control and order units, the design of construction, the resource model, the way units interact, everything.
Yes, it's its own engine. But it's still very much a homage to TA, and is still very much TA.
You guys can kick and scream about Multiple build orders, repeat commands and a few new weapons. The fact is that Spring is TA. The entire premise of it is TA. Everything about it is TA, with improvements and alterations. The improvements and alterations are certainly great. But it's like comparing Humans and Monkeys. On the surface they are very different, but their DNA is still 99% the same. Except that Spring still very much looks like TA.
I don't think "TA" should be dropped from the name, and I really haven't seen any arguments that say to the contrary. Most people refer to it as just "Spring", I know I do. But when I explain to someone what Spring is, you simply cannot do it without mentioning TA. Keeping the link with TA is essential, in my opinion.
Yes, perhaps somewhere well down the track, Spring will have evolved well away from TA so as to warrant not essentially being TA. Even then I would probably argue to keep TA by name, or by subtitle, simply because it is a matter of honouring Spring's roots. Spring simply wouldn't exist without TA. Abandoning that seems somewhat, callous and arrogant, I think.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
I said your post was idiotic, not you. Learn to read, and stop acting like an idiot. You are the only person in this thread that wants to keep TA attached. Essential to keep a link to a game that was released in 1997 and didn't even sell THAT well compared to other big name RTS games at the time, namely starcrap?Warlord Zsinj wrote:Bleh, Forboding, you've got a serious attitude problem if you can't actually counter an argument without throwing around hyperbole such as "stupid", "moronic", etc. You disagree? Fine. Disprove me. But don't act like a wanker while you're doing it, otherwise I'm going to be pretty disinclined to respond to any of your points. Like now.
I do not think removing "TA" from the name will make Spring any more or less likely to be sued. The fact is that Spring is distributing TA content, and is still effectively TA. That's where you are potentially going to be sued over - which is in itself unlikely. Removing "TA" from the name doesn't at all change the fact that you've got Mavericks firing at Instigators on maps like The Cold Place.
Even without the mods, or the maps, Spring is still TA. The way you control and order units, the design of construction, the resource model, the way units interact, everything.
Yes, it's its own engine. But it's still very much a homage to TA, and is still very much TA.
You guys can kick and scream about Multiple build orders, repeat commands and a few new weapons. The fact is that Spring is TA. The entire premise of it is TA. Everything about it is TA, with improvements and alterations. The improvements and alterations are certainly great. But it's like comparing Humans and Monkeys. On the surface they are very different, but their DNA is still 99% the same. Except that Spring still very much looks like TA.
I don't think "TA" should be dropped from the name, and I really haven't seen any arguments that say to the contrary. Most people refer to it as just "Spring", I know I do. But when I explain to someone what Spring is, you simply cannot do it without mentioning TA. Keeping the link with TA is essential, in my opinion.
Yes, perhaps somewhere well down the track, Spring will have evolved well away from TA so as to warrant not essentially being TA. Even then I would probably argue to keep TA by name, or by subtitle, simply because it is a matter of honouring Spring's roots. Spring simply wouldn't exist without TA. Abandoning that seems somewhat, callous and arrogant, I think.
Stop being stubborn. Maybe you like to live in a box, but the thinkers and doers in this community like to live outside of your box.
Hmm I agree with warlord tbh.
I read about this engine in a pc gamer mag in Canada I think about a year and a half ago, im sure its been featured in other mags too, if atari were going to sue wouldnt there have been rumblings before now?
Isnt it ok to play if you have the original TA on disc?
I suppose removing the TA link it wouldnt make a difference anyway seeing as atari more than likely know about this and the TA content will still be played wether or not the engine is called spring or ta spring
Anyhow the only thing that attracted me to spring in the first place was the link to TA, are there any players here who downloaded this for any other reason? had I seen only mods like ee, ff and gundam featured I probably would have turned the page and forgotten about the spring engine.
I dont mean any offense to the modders who produced that stuff but imo they will not attract many new players to spring, I think you definately need to keep the TA link longer, Im sure this will increase the community size more quickly and hence bringing in more devs and players.
At the same time new mods like ee etc will help but if it was up to me Id definately keep the TA link if you want to see the community grow in size.
Ove new players etc arrive they will realise the engines potential to do stuff other than TA anyway.
I read about this engine in a pc gamer mag in Canada I think about a year and a half ago, im sure its been featured in other mags too, if atari were going to sue wouldnt there have been rumblings before now?
Isnt it ok to play if you have the original TA on disc?
I suppose removing the TA link it wouldnt make a difference anyway seeing as atari more than likely know about this and the TA content will still be played wether or not the engine is called spring or ta spring
Anyhow the only thing that attracted me to spring in the first place was the link to TA, are there any players here who downloaded this for any other reason? had I seen only mods like ee, ff and gundam featured I probably would have turned the page and forgotten about the spring engine.
I dont mean any offense to the modders who produced that stuff but imo they will not attract many new players to spring, I think you definately need to keep the TA link longer, Im sure this will increase the community size more quickly and hence bringing in more devs and players.
At the same time new mods like ee etc will help but if it was up to me Id definately keep the TA link if you want to see the community grow in size.
Ove new players etc arrive they will realise the engines potential to do stuff other than TA anyway.
Last edited by BigSteve on 27 Jun 2006, 10:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Das Bruce: I used those words not to be dramatic, but because they were the most appropriate ones that came to mind. In retrospect, something a little less wordy would have been better. But, atleast it got the point across.
Forboding: Bleh, perhaps you should read my post? I didn't say that you were calling me stupid, I said that you were calling my arguments stupid, which I feel is just as bad, anyway. And though it wasn't said in my post, by calling my arguments stupid, you are inferring that I, too must be stupid. But hey, you cleared that up for me in your following post. Not only do I post like an idiot, I act like an idiot. Really, brilliant arguments there.
TA was released in 1997, and no Real Time Strategy yet has been able to top it's gameplay. The whole reason for Spring's existence is that the SY's believed that TA had not been topped by an RTS in gameplay, and decided to remake it for the modern age. Uch, comments like this boil my blood. I've seen your maps, I've seen your work. You aren't stupid. So how can you say things that are so devoid of intelligence?
Attack my arguments, not me. Think my viewpoint is narrow minded? Prove it to me. I'm able to see when I make mistakes. As yet, I haven't been convinced otherwise.
Forboding: Bleh, perhaps you should read my post? I didn't say that you were calling me stupid, I said that you were calling my arguments stupid, which I feel is just as bad, anyway. And though it wasn't said in my post, by calling my arguments stupid, you are inferring that I, too must be stupid. But hey, you cleared that up for me in your following post. Not only do I post like an idiot, I act like an idiot. Really, brilliant arguments there.
No, I'm not. Nor is this thread indicative of the entire Spring community. Nor does my voice being in a minority all of a sudden invalidate what I am saying.You are the only person in this thread that wants to keep TA attached.
Posts like this really bely your naivete. You judge a game by how well it sells? Do you listen to pop-chart hip hop and read tabloids too?Essential to keep a link to a game that was released in 1997 and didn't even sell THAT well compared to other big name RTS games at the time, namely starcrap?
TA was released in 1997, and no Real Time Strategy yet has been able to top it's gameplay. The whole reason for Spring's existence is that the SY's believed that TA had not been topped by an RTS in gameplay, and decided to remake it for the modern age. Uch, comments like this boil my blood. I've seen your maps, I've seen your work. You aren't stupid. So how can you say things that are so devoid of intelligence?
And please, jump down off your high-horse. It doesn't add anything to your argument, and makes you come off as quite arrogant.Stop being stubborn. Maybe you like to live in a box, but the thinkers and doers in this community like to live outside of your box.
Attack my arguments, not me. Think my viewpoint is narrow minded? Prove it to me. I'm able to see when I make mistakes. As yet, I haven't been convinced otherwise.
Guys!!!! this is not helping the situation what so ever shouldnt we be finding a solution around this mess instead of everyone going at each others throats? for goodness sake this is rediculas lets put an end to all these arguments and find out what we should do if atari do attemt to shut us down !!!!!
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Except with each new feature being added the guts are more and more moving away from thier TA roots. The only reason I call spring "Spring" is because it's shorter and I don't see the TA hommage as univerally nessicary. Spring is moving towards being a general game engine, as slowly but surely we get open editable GUI's, new scripting languages/implimentations, and other features. The graphical capabilites are already heads and tails over what TA could do, and that will only improve.Warlord Zsinj wrote:Bleh, Forboding, you've got a serious attitude problem if you can't actually counter an argument without throwing around hyperbole such as "stupid", "moronic", etc. You disagree? Fine. Disprove me. But don't act like a wanker while you're doing it, otherwise I'm going to be pretty disinclined to respond to any of your points. Like now.
I do not think removing "TA" from the name will make Spring any more or less likely to be sued. The fact is that Spring is distributing TA content, and is still effectively TA. That's where you are potentially going to be sued over - which is in itself unlikely. Removing "TA" from the name doesn't at all change the fact that you've got Mavericks firing at Instigators on maps like The Cold Place.
Even without the mods, or the maps, Spring is still TA. The way you control and order units, the design of construction, the resource model, the way units interact, everything.
Yes, it's its own engine. But it's still very much a homage to TA, and is still very much TA.
You guys can kick and scream about Multiple build orders, repeat commands and a few new weapons. The fact is that Spring is TA. The entire premise of it is TA. Everything about it is TA, with improvements and alterations. The improvements and alterations are certainly great. But it's like comparing Humans and Monkeys. On the surface they are very different, but their DNA is still 99% the same. Except that Spring still very much looks like TA.
I don't think "TA" should be dropped from the name, and I really haven't seen any arguments that say to the contrary. Most people refer to it as just "Spring", I know I do. But when I explain to someone what Spring is, you simply cannot do it without mentioning TA. Keeping the link with TA is essential, in my opinion.
Yes, perhaps somewhere well down the track, Spring will have evolved well away from TA so as to warrant not essentially being TA. Even then I would probably argue to keep TA by name, or by subtitle, simply because it is a matter of honouring Spring's roots. Spring simply wouldn't exist without TA. Abandoning that seems somewhat, callous and arrogant, I think.
On the other side the reason I like the TA is A: We do do what TA did very well so the original goal of the project is more or less accomplished, B: Nothing sells spring like the ability to run TA sells spring. Ussually when I'm trying to attract new players I'll make no short attemt to make it very clear that spring is a 3D reincarnation of the TA engine, because gamers remember TA and that's the first thing they want to do with spring, and it always will be.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
Run for the hills! Hide your women! Atari is coming! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!DeathHawk wrote:Swiftspear how u have become so wise beats the hell outta me but i like it.
But like i said we should all need to get a solution under way and soon because Spring is starting to get known now and atari could make an attack anytime soon.
DeathHawk wrote:Swiftspear how u have become so wise beats the hell outta me but i like it
But like i said we should all need to get a solution under way and soon because Spring is starting to get known now and atari could make an attack anytime soon.
Some mods... have removed the ota content. Some mods are not afraid. Other mod makers could make the effort to take out/remove the ota content. *said content being, sounds, textures and models.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way. I don't think atari cares. We have sounds... ok... we have models.. ok... we don't have the rest of the game. If anything I wish the other mod makers would take the step I have and remove the ota content. Mods like world domination and swta are almost there. FF needs to have all that shit removed.
... AA, uberhack, Xta, KuroTA and BOTA are screwed. However, It has yet to happend that anyone... ie caydr or the xta group have done a complete port of OTA. They need to remodel things replace textures and sounds. I would take some time, yeah I am not argueing that.. or what about all you people who play AA... no love for the mod you play all the time obviously because NONE of you are redoing the textures.
I know a change is going to come one day and when it does I am sure people are going to be complaining about how aa was soo much fun and why didn't anyone redo all the art. Peh.
I think, yeah it would be pretty good. Probably renaming units and yeah redoing them.... but then again aa pretty much has redone the stats... or just use all 3rd party.
If you look at generations... the first version was only stopped because it used property of 3 different games in one game that was sold by a different producer. I was there when the ceast and decist order was issued. However, they have since made a q3 version and I was EXSTATIC to get a cd from the mod makers at quakecon.
I really think that replacing all of the ota models, textures and sounds is an important step to getting that C&D order off of our concern. Otherwise, like I said SWTA, WD and FF do not have a lot of work ahead of them as far as texture replacement goes. TheTA unit packs should just replace all of the OTA shit with 3rd party stuff and I think that would help to.
If you look at generations... the first version was only stopped because it used property of 3 different games in one game that was sold by a different producer. I was there when the ceast and decist order was issued. However, they have since made a q3 version and I was EXSTATIC to get a cd from the mod makers at quakecon.
I really think that replacing all of the ota models, textures and sounds is an important step to getting that C&D order off of our concern. Otherwise, like I said SWTA, WD and FF do not have a lot of work ahead of them as far as texture replacement goes. TheTA unit packs should just replace all of the OTA shit with 3rd party stuff and I think that would help to.
I'm pretty sure Xect vs. Mynn includes new cursors. The problem is that many mods (such as Xect vs. Mynn, afaik) still use OTA BOS scripts. I know Smoth made it a big deal to do his scripting from scratch, but many others didn't. That's a real problem, since it means that all the myriad 3rd-party units that _would_ be open content with a simple retexturing also need new script. For example, look at AA. Theoretically, if you ripped out the Arm and Core Cavedog units and dropped in... say... the TLL units, you'd have all non-Cavedog units in the game. Then you'd have to go about the business of discarding all the Cavedog textures, but I doubt that would be hard. Tedious, but easy. Ditto the sounds. But then the problem is all the COB scripts - replacing those would be infeasible.ILMTitan wrote:There is still one piece of OTA content that still is a core part of spring, and I don't mean the game play. Game play rules can't be copyrighted. The mouse cursors are all still OTA.
Anybody know if E&E is scripted from scratch? Since it otherwise seems unencumbered with IP issues (Gundam is all new content, but still risks getting Foxed because it's a fan-project).
I'll send you a PM.Erom wrote:Ooo... cursors. That sounds like something I might enjoy. What kind of files are they, 3d models or 2d sprites? If I could get a 10 second intro to where the files are from you smoth, or anybody, I'd make a few sets of cursors, so mod makers have some non-ta ones they can use.
However, once the mod is worthy of gundam fans I will make the project known to bandai.(Gundam is all new content, but still risks getting Foxed because it's a fan-project).