map making wiki blabla

[Silentwings]

What I have given is a rough yet concise guide to getting your map made. Now all we need to do is add content around it (or to it), add subsections, etc.

I disagree entirely. The sections look to me to be in a fairly random order and aren't a great match for what I know that I and others do. (Showing how to compile a map before asking to open blueprint wtf? and many people don't even use blueprint... and instructions on ssmf appear before the barebones template... and the bare bones template is nothing than a set of instructions on which files to delete from a 'blank' set of blueprint files... ...).

As several mapmakers have said above, there is little/no chance of a newbie learning how to make maps from your current tutorial/wiki page, which is it's biggest failing imho.

The wiki page should contain a tutorialS, amongst other things. It says that it does in the main wiki index, and Tobi says that it does in http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=27779.


Btw, BA has no known issues with ssmf maps and I've never heard of any with ZK either.

It is not about what is newer or older.
It is about how map_development was a portal page and you replaced it with one tutorial.

+1

[Forboding Angel]

Silentwings, you are an irritating troll.

The info and sections are in the order that you need them. Blueprint isn't even relevant until after you compile the map. Capice?

The sections are in order. By following one to the next, making a map is easy as pie.

I took the liberty of looking at your latest map just now. It is done via the SMF method, which is "deprecated" and outdated, so your "procedure" that "you and other mapmakers use" means fuckall.

Your inexperience with SSMF is made readily apparent by your comment about compiling. With SSMF, compiling is one of the minor steps, not the "final" step that SMF would have you believe. Moreover, with SSMF, barring texturemap or heightmap changes, there is never a reason to recompile, which is also completely different from SMF.

So, in the nicest way possible, gtfo, and come back when you have a clue what is being talked about. And stop trying to troll. That shit is annoying. Alternative, stop being a troll and be productive and constructive.

Aside:

It is not about what is newer or older.
It is about how map_development was a portal page and you replaced it with one tutorial.

It is absolutely about "older" and "newer". Deprecated means deprecated (never mind that I kept using the wrong word - guess I might as well go back and fix that...). Let us summon el Floz to define it for us again.

DEPRECATED
(Computer Science) To mark (a component of a software standard) as obsolete to warn against its use in the future so that it may be phased out.

[enetheru]

@forbs

I'm going to have to back silentwings up on his post, it doesn't appear trollish to me in the slightest. he disagrees and provides points as to why he thinks so. he does not attack you and the text doesn't look like its intended to get a rise from you..

Unless is so super subtle that I cant see it... please calm down.

what silentwings could have added are solutions to the perceived problems, that would have provided something to work forward with.

you also misunderstand the meaning of deprecated, making a map without the ssmf stuff isn't deprecated, its just less detailed. and honestly its the beginning steps in making maps. you cant expect people to make high quality feature rich maps right from the get go. is a learning process whereby you start with the simplest map and work your way forward as you gain experience, eventually creating works of art like you and behe have.

not all games require ssmf details. and people making new games may not need those features depending on their goals. so forcing people to use them is not productive. the engine loads fine without ssmf, so its an optional extra.

honestly forbs(and I'm prepared for the backlash) your posts are more trollish than most since you attack people personally, questioning their intelligence and experience, and ignoring any opinion they have. But I always ignore it cause I don't know your culture/language etc.

Please learn to take criticism with grace, the mapping page does need to change/grow, you have already acknowledged this.

-----------------------

I already know what I would like to see the map page turn into, since I've been creating it in my own time, I already have presented it a while ago to the forum and had it shot down.. so I'm trying to find a compromise.

I think we all agree that reference documentation rather than tutorials is more valuable at this point.

look through the links here http://springrts.com/wiki/Enetheru:mapping2

I'm not putting this forward as a replacement(much as I would like that) but as something for discussion.

[Funkencool]

I think we all agree that reference documentation rather than tutorials is more valuable at this point.

look through the links here http://springrts.com/wiki/Enetheru:mapping2

I'm not putting this forward as a replacement(much as I would like that) but as something for discussion.

I've actually had this bookmarked for a time. Although incomplete, it is excellent for reference.

[FLOZi]

wrt Emmanuel;

What does anyone think of tagging all his pages as Category:Emmanuel and reverting any changes he might make to pages outside his own 'area'?

If a page he makes is worth the time and effort of cleaning up, it can then be taken out of that category.

(Also, moderator split this into a 'Wiki Discussion Thread'?)

[smoth]

It works except when he bleeds over sure

[Silentwings]

@ethneru - Thanks. It's true that I didn't offer any positive suggestions other than "For God's sake include something resembling a tutorial somewhere". I'd be more than happy to help with your wiki page or write a tutorial for world machine users.

@forb - Several people have now made the point that maps without ssmf are not deprecated - ssmf is just another layer you can add on top *if* you can be bothered to make your map that beautiful. I can't be bothered (and people do enjoy playing my maps, and the many other smf maps, anyway!). In any case I make my textures using world machine; wm has it's own ways of texture splattering, which I do use.

But the real point is not about ssmf, or how much you want to insult others who don't put as much effort/skill into mapmaking as you do: it's that there are many different ways of making maps and many different levels of skill amongst mapmakers. Imho the wiki will be useless to most people if it doesn't take accout of both those things.

[smoth]

In any case I make my textures using world machine; wm has it's own ways of texture splattering, which I do use.

Side point wm's texture application is in no way a replacement for the splatting ssmf offers. Honestly I went through the years of work to prove wm viable, ssmf is not the same as the WM texture splatting and neither one replaces the other.

[Silentwings]

Agreed.

[smoth]

also marginally related... the svn I used to have all my mapping stuff in is now hidden to all but a few. Would you guys have use of my mapping shit being public again?

[Funkencool]

also marginally related... the svn I used to have all my mapping stuff in is now hidden to all but a few. Would you guys have use of my mapping shit being public again?

I'm sure I could make use it

[Jools]

About deprecation (that's the same for both words right?): what's the problem with good old mother mapconv? The tutorial page says that the replacement is only for linux, so windows users should still use that one.

Anyway, that's what I have installed and configured. In what way is it worse than any other tool?

[Forboding Angel]

No, for windows you should use regular mapconv. MapconvNG is only suitable for linux.

Mothers is over 8 years old. Beherith has since made massive improvements to mapconv: http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21458

[enetheru]

No, for windows you should use regular mapconv. MapconvNG is only suitable for linux.

Mothers is over 8 years old. Beherith has since made massive improvements to mapconv: http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21458

Absolutely correct!!!

I dont use windows so i trusted the claims from the readme that NG is cross platform, it isnt.. I was getting a friend of mine to test the docs and NG didnt work on windows for him.. i need to alter the wiki to match.. but i dont use windows so its a bit tough.. i would like if someone helped in this area.

Even better, i would like for all efforts to merge into a single tool that is cross platform(win,max,linux) and also integrated into the main source tree. but that's a pipe dream.

[Beherith]

There is only one reason you shouldnt use mothers mapconv: and its scanlines when zoomed out. Besides from that, my mapconv only offers additional features that may or may not be useful to others.

[Kloot]

Beherith has since made massive improvements to mapconv

Which still aren't open source.

[Beherith]

The reason it isnt open source is because I hate/cant understand/am too retarded for (choose at least one) GIT.

Is it OK if I put it on an svn based thing like google code?

[Kloot]

Of course. The important point is that your changes can be merged into spring's mapconv repo (by someone who doesn't hate git).

[Beherith]

http://code.google.com/p/mapconv/source/list
Thank you!

[Jools]

I have a shirt that's 8 years old and it still looks very nice.