WTB old pathing back

[Johannes]

Youve buffed the acceleration values since then, or why does that matter?

[Teutooni]

People really are willing to help when it messes up the game they used to play so bad, but they can't code.

You could gather a pot for whoever fixes the pathfinder - Some extra motivation. Better yet, hire someone full-time.

[smoth]

from CA player perspective ... visible pluses since older version are

We don't use lua lobby and can live without SSMF.

You don't eventually I plan on it.

You are correct you can live without ssmf you can also live without pathfinder being fixed.

[smoth]

I have my issues with the pathfinder but I don't think it is right to do an engine rollback because of it. My game has been broken where no one could play it for months. Then there was the snaking bug which made play testing impossible because it really only obviously effected gundam.

yet I wasn't screaming for an engine rollback. I went to a lan party friday and some random guy saw me playing with gundam and asked if he could try it out. I said sure. Had him watch the tutorial video and we played for hours. He had a blast. So here I am trying to stabilize this game so I can get it out, pushing the visuals, I spent 2 weeks setting up the ssmf for my maps... and still tweaking it this morning. Yet, by all means let's roll back because the pathfinder is inconvenient in a different way.

I am not going to get involved in all the derision that is going on with different parties making ad hominem attacks left and right. IIRC that is against the rules. Stuff is broken, sure, stuff was always broken. Why is it so unbearable now? Is it because the players were used to the quirks of the old pathfinder? There is very little usefull information in this thread beyond a bunch of guys going "nuh uh" "uh huh" and "you're a dumbass" "no u"

And people wonder why the devs stay out of these threads.

[AF]

Shouldn't you all be asking why the pathfinder is broken? Wether BA has broken movement is besides the point because there is a very real difference, and BA has not changed between engine versions, only the engine has. So regardless of BA, why has this changed?

Until you have answered this question, it is irresponsible to continue discussion of BA movement in this thread, any continued speculation and argument now Ive said this is tantamount to troll baiting.

Simply rolling back the engine would be counterproductive, it would remove all the architectural changes that allow us to continue work on the replacement pathfinders. Even then people would still not be happy, what if the problems are still there?

Even if the new problems went, people would notice the old ones that used to be 'fine' but now that theres been all this fuss so much that now people won't be happy unless all problems go, and in all the history of the engine, the pathfinder has never been in such a state, else we would never have bothered changing it in the first place. Kman himself stated something along the lines of it being a bastard child of his that he disowned, heck most developers refused to touch it because it was a garbled mess thrown together

[smoth]

FWIW, that wasn't a double post the post I replied to was deleted...

[Licho]

Do you really need to break it for all players to "work on new pathfinders"?

Version in git can be very different from whats marked as "official" on lobby server.

[smoth]

WHAT

PRECISELY

IS

BROKEN

[Licho]

Smoth, how many hours have you clocked in commonly played mods on this engine release?

Its hilarious, its like if i brought completely broken smashed car for repair and you asked WHAT PRECISELY IS BROKEN.

Units get stuck everywhere, clump everywhere, accessible areas cannot be reached, units choose invalid (time longer) paths etc.

[smoth]

Smoth, how many hours have you clocked in commonly played mods on this engine release?

LOW BLOW licho. I have been clocking my hours play MY project which has been broken for MONTHS. [HEMADYALL] I am sorry that I have spent the past week out helping people who matter IRL instead of this shit hole which constantly treats my project as a second class citizen. I am sorry that instead of working on my project, helping others and generally trying to help the devs debug I have not been playing BA.

F U bro.
[/IAINTEVENMAD]

Its hilarious, its like if i brought completely broken smashed car for repair and you asked WHAT PRECISELY IS BROKEN.

This would be visibly apparent. It is not the case here in spring.

Units get stuck everywhere, clump everywhere, accessible areas cannot be reached, units choose invalid (time longer) paths etc.

Units always god stuck, units clumping, ok but using ftc's widget, renabling pushing and using line move I have had just as many issues as before. Like I said, I played last night with a random guy who never played spring before and he had no issues with it. They always chose invalid paths. I remember them going way to the other side of the fucking canyon because of a few bumps in the terrain.

[Otherside]

List of things that are broken.

Ridiculous pathing especially when setting waypoints. This is way more evident with all terrain units which insist on walking on the ground even if its faster to climb. Makes it annoying to set any way points and requires way more tedious micro than it used to. Units also take retarded pathing routes if you give them a long order so you keep having to spam short moves to get similar behaviour to old pathfinder.

Units will get stuck on pretty much anything (which rarely used to happen before) getting stuck inside a lab is about 10 times more common than it was and alot of units find it hard to navigate slopes or bumps without getting stuck.

Clumping. Units insist on clumping up all the time you need to keep on spamming line move.

Basically you need spam a ton more mouse clicks to get close to old behaviour and even then its not the same. You spend more time fighting with the pathfinder than your enemy. The old pathfinder might be flawed but it worked and I certainly didn't find myself fighting with it all the time.

[smoth]

again. going from point a to b before used to be pants on heads retarded walking a mile to miss a bump etc. what is different between old and new

again, shit got stuck all the time back in the day as well.

[luckywaldo7]

Its not really like pathing was suddenly "broken", there were problems before but they have become much worse now, and while casual players might not notice anything if you are playing with somewhat seriousness it becomes a huge issue.

I disagree with this approach to getting it fixed though. Reverting the changes and threatening engine devs is not the way to go. If anything we should be encouraging them.

Not that current pathing isn't frustrating. I mostly gave up playing Spring in favor of SC2 for a while.

But pathing will be fixed so much faster and be so much better if the devs know their work is appreciated, because even if pathing is bad atm, they are working on it :)

[Gota]

aside from all the flaming and name calling AND some of the truths said here, I want to make a special request for the devs that will actually do some work in this area(if they bother reading this flame thread at all that is).

Plz allow to easily turn off pathing speed calculation when it comes to hills and no hill zones.
I want to have a mod with units that don't care if it's a bit slower to climb a hill and do it anyway if they can(if their max slope allows it,if not, they should of course still take into account impassable terrain).

It would be nice to have this as an entire mod switch and per unit.

[AF]

Remember the last time something like this happened and the developers response was tough, were not fixing it? Back when multiple maps in one archive stopped working and Tobi announced that he was making an executive decision to force all maps to one archive because everyone had blamed betalord?


Also

Broken behaviour != broken code

We have access to the code in github, and commit by commit message logs and diffs. Instead of telling us the effects of the problem, state the actual problem itself. It looks like none of you actually know what the issue is, and are just endlessly repeating the knock on effects that it causes, so how can you lecture the developers on how to fix it?

File a proper bug report. If someone balls up cooking you a cake by sitting on it, do you really complain that the cake is too mushy and needs unmushing?

[Forboding Angel]

aside from all the flaming and name calling AND some of the truths said here, I want to make a special request for the devs that will actually do some work in this area(if they bother reading this flame thread at all that is).

Plz allow to easily turn off pathing speed calculation when it comes to hills and no hill zones.
I want to have a mod with units that don't care if it's a bit slower to climb a hill and do it anyway if they can(if their max slope allows it,if not, they should of course still take into account impassable terrain).

It would be nice to have this as an entire mod switch and per unit.

You can do this already gota. It's slopemod in the movedefs. If you want, have a look at evo's movedefs and look at the amphibtank dealies, should be pretty obvious from that how it works.

The only pathfinding issues I really hit anymore is occasionally units will get stuck on terrain. The neat thing is the fact that when I give an order, the unit actually moves in a straight line and doesn't detour off and take the senic route like they used to witht he old pathfinder.

The new pathfinder has quite a few plusses, and tbh I would rather have these plusses and deal with some units getting stuck on terrain for a while than have the pos pathfinder back.

[Johannes]

The new pathfinder has quite a few plusses,

and what would those be?

[AF]

http://github.com/spring/spring/commit/ ... 249ef1147a

If I didnt post that we'd all continue blathering on while those in the know who actually bother to look, facepalm in embarassment. All you people who don't really understand what's happening would be happy to complain for the next few months, even if the devs did the revert yesterday in git.

I predict that most people will not click the link and assume that the devs rolled back the engine to before the magical pathfinder bugs occurred ( note that nobody has stated exactly which commit they should roll back to! )

[Sucky_Lord]

I dont know anything about programming pathing, I only have ingame experience of it, and I dont know whether this is a stupid thing to say, but it might be worth saying anyway!

For pathing, unit priorities should go commander>units with lower health>units with more health.

Dont flame me if its a stupid thing to say; Im just sick of my com walking into enemy HLTs to get past a jeffy.

[hoijui]

to test Kloot's fix, see:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 06#p454706