Gameplay and Graphics. CALL TO ARMS!

[Sleksa]

I agree that its outdated and there have been a lot of progress, but TA is a classic. It doesnt need to be replaced >:[

So why are you playing Spring, a replacement for TA, then?

because ZONE died, and because #Warc is composed of the coolest people in the internets .

I agree that its outdated and there have been a lot of progress, but TA is a classic. It doesnt need to be replaced >:[

it's content does.

No, not really no. TA is the coolest rts i've ever played, many titles coming out nowadays dont even have a quarter of the features of TA. And yet you say it needs to be replaced. Replaced by what, how, by whom?

what you fail to realize is that I could tha community work as part of the current incarnation of BA, which came from AA which came from the TA unit pack AA which was based on Uberhack.

I cant make sense out of this :/

Also of all people in the community you are talking to a guy who has worked on gundam will little interest coming from the community and I have to purchase most of my reference materials from japan which is in no way cheap.

Its all fine 'n dandy for you to buy reference materials from japan. Personally i buy stuff for my hobbies from finland, but everyone has their preferences.

So I understand for the love and you people do not love your ta very much.

I love it enough to be dismayed by some guy calling it outdated and in need of "replacing" or "improving"

It is everyone's loss as they have inadequate graphics which hurt the games. Gundam and many other projects will be fine, but the TA mods will one day die out.

What you do with your mod is of little concern to me, So what noize and other people do with their mods should be of little concern to you.

What comes to the graphics, Dwarf fortress (a ASCII, OMFG SO SHITTY GFX THEY DONT HAVE ANY ROFLOLLOL :dDD) Has a larger playerbase than we have people in spring. That should show that Graphics dont necessarily hurt the game, as long as the gameplay is good.

Also, the death of ba and all ta content would be a immense boon for your gundam playerbase, so i dont see any reason for you to call out people to "improve" ta mods

This thread was actually a suggestion for people to get up and help improve the game they allegedly love(ta in spring).

I dont object to people starting spinoffs(i've told this before) , but saying that ta and the game is somehow inferior to the things we have today makes my heart bleed.

TA is a classic, like starcraft, or command&conquer. if you cant understand the beauty of those games and instead have a inner need to mutilate them to your desires, its your loss

People stick their heads in the sand crying that the game is fine. Well, that is always the reaction around here and I was disappointed to see that sort of response.

Well there are people crying that the game is fine, and then there's you crying that the game isnt fine, I dont see how your word is somehow better than mine ~~

Luckily it was only from sleksa so far. CA hopes to change that and I commend them but this thread wasn't for them OR for people like sleksa who hate change and fight it violently.

As i said before, i only hate change if you force people to do it.

i object you saying That ta content needs to be deleted and then reinvented

i dont object to you saying that people need to start new projects (like ca) that replaces ta content

I dont object to the work of CA devs, theyre doing okayish, But i would object if they would say CA changes need to be forced into next ba release, like you seemed to imply in your posts (ie making things "better")

It is a call to arms, a request that people get up and help make a difference. Altogether a noble cause.

Rly




To get back from personal qq's id like to ask you smoth what is wrong with TA gameplay and graphic wise, and what should be done to fix these things, instead of just generally denouncing TA

[smoth]

it's content does.

No, not really no. TA is the coolest rts i've ever played, many titles coming out nowadays dont even have a quarter of the features of TA. And yet you say it needs to be replaced. Replaced by what, how, by whom?

it's graphical content needs to be replaced by better models and textures.

what you fail to realize is that I could tha community work as part of the current incarnation of BA, which came from AA which came from the TA unit pack AA which was based on Uberhack.

I cant make sense out of this :/

Originally there was Total Annihilation.
Then some person(s) made a mod called uberhack which added a lot of stuff and balanced things.
AA is based on uber hack.
Ba is based on AA.

Meaning that BA has years of community work behind it and I know that because I am aware of it's history.

Also of all people in the community you are talking to a guy who has worked on gundam will little interest coming from the community and I have to purchase most of my reference materials from japan which is in no way cheap.

Its all fine 'n dandy for you to buy reference materials from japan. Personally i buy stuff for my hobbies from finland, but everyone has their preferences.

You wanted to talk about how people who mod doing it for love and not cash. I am saying that I do it for the love and it is costly.

So I understand for the love and you people do not love your ta very much.

I love it enough to be dismayed by some guy calling it outdated and in need of "replacing" or "improving"

I am saying the art needs to reinforce the gameplay that you so love and not hurt the game as it does now. TA's art is bad and it hurts the game for people who are new to it. Old players like yourself are used to it and are familiar with it from years of play. New players have a harder time.

It is everyone's loss as they have inadequate graphics which hurt the games. Gundam and many other projects will be fine, but the TA mods will one day die out.

What you do with your mod is of little concern to me, So what noize and other people do with their mods should be of little concern to you.

Noize can do what he wants but that does not mean the models and effects don't need to be redone in the ta content that spring uses. That does not mean that I do not want to see TA in spring. That does not mean I was only talking about BA or that you have to make everything about BA.

What comes to the graphics, Dwarf fortress (a ASCII, OMFG SO SHITTY GFX THEY DONT HAVE ANY ROFLOLLOL :dDD) Has a larger playerbase than we have people in spring. That should show that Graphics dont necessarily hurt the game, as long as the gameplay is good.

Dwarf fortress can be played at work, spring ta mods cannot, neither can TA. Dwar fortress also appeals to that large mud crowd. Same all the roguelikes do. However, the key being that it can be played at work. just like flash games.

Also, the death of ba and all ta content would be a immense boon for your gundam playerbase, so i dont see any reason for you to call out people to "improve" ta mods

Are you really going to try and convince me this was an honest statement. No BA players are not gundam's target fanbase so stop acting like I am trying to steal your player base. Gundam's target playerbase has always been me and whoever likes gundam. MOST ba players do not like Gundam. Also you can keep the speedmetal tards.

As I have told you countless times, I want to see all mods/games in this community do well and as always I try and make suggestions that I FEEL may be helpful. Just because I do not post in the BA thread. Which btw due to your violent disposition is pointless, does not mean I do not care. Fact of the matter is no one can post constructive suggestions in the ba thread because YOU and not noize will violently oppose them.

This thread was actually a suggestion for people to get up and help improve the game they allegedly love(ta in spring).

I dont object to people starting spinoffs(i've told this before) , but saying that ta and the game is somehow inferior to the things we have today makes my heart bleed.

Ba is not your mod, I could up and modify it if I want to. However the art in ba IS inferior to everything today. Artwork is the point of this thread.

TA is a classic, like starcraft, or command&conquer. if you cant understand the beauty of those games and instead have a inner need to mutilate them to your desires, its your loss

Sleksa, you are not playing TA, you are playing BA which is far removed from TA.

People stick their heads in the sand crying that the game is fine. Well, that is always the reaction around here and I was disappointed to see that sort of response.

Well there are people crying that the game is fine, and then there's you crying that the game isnt fine, I dont see how your word is somehow better than mine ~~

The game is fine the graphics are fucked.

Luckily it was only from sleksa so far. CA hopes to change that and I commend them but this thread wasn't for them OR for people like sleksa who hate change and fight it violently.

As i said before, i only hate change if you force people to do it.

I am forcing noone

i object you saying That ta content needs to be deleted and then reinvented

It already has in the creation of ba and spring ta IS NOT OTA. none of them are.

i dont object to you saying that people need to start new projects (like ca) that replaces ta content

Everything doesn't revolve around your favorite pet project BA.

I dont object to the work of CA devs, theyre doing okayish, But i would object if they would say CA changes need to be forced into next ba release, like you seemed to imply in your posts (ie making things "better")

I am saying that spring ta is ugly. It has mechanics that are good to the mass populace and several good ta features and the use of many great spring engine features. I am saying that they are all ugly and need to replace their content. Only CA is doing this but yeah BA is ugly.

To get back from personal qq's id like to ask you smoth what is wrong with TA gameplay and graphic wise, and what should be done to fix these things, instead of just generally denouncing TA

I have already explained it before. The models are not good, they are textured poorly and in a way that does not help players learn what they are. By and large they look fairly random in their texturing with no obvious lines of form within the textures because mostly it is a heap of random panels. Over greebled piles of shit with no significant detail and lots of visual noise. I can say with absolute certainty that there are still gaping holes in the geometry. The Way spring handles the ta textures is based on luminosity they will acquire reflection and specular along with the alpha method. Because they are 3do they need to utilize square faces in order to have textured faces. BECAUSE they use square faces in non squares have their textures distorted in the spring engine when turned to triangles. By and large there is little difference between arm and core with several units having been switched side before OTA was released. The explosions need to be replaced(I have talked about this in many threads and some mods are doing it). The weapons have ugly projectiles or ones that are uninteresting.

That is off the top of my head, if I wanted to sit down and think about it longer I could probably produce more reasons but since you will likely stonewall anything I say, I'll stop there.

[Guessmyname]

Calm down Sleska. He's only saying three things (or at least, his first post did):
1) The TA models are outdated (they're over 10 years old. And it's not that they're bad or ugly, it's just that they weren't designed to be viewed from all angles. Which now, they are)
2) The gameplay of TA (well, BA - seeing as that's what we're actually talking about here, rather than good ol' OTA...) is fine. It's been hammered at for over... however many years it's been. So it's time the graphical department got some love.
3) So lets all join hands and [strikethrough]usher in the age of Aquarius[/strikethrough] work together to amend point 1 and do TA's gameplay visual justice!

You can't exactly blame him for wanting to improve things can you?

(Please note: I'm watching End of Evangelion as I write this. That's something akin to having your brain attacked by chainsaw. Case in point: I currently find the idea of having by brain attacked by chainsaw funny. Combine that with insomnia, and whatever my sanity level is at, it's not over 9000. Please bear that mind when reading the above.

I should have probably put that note up first...)

[smoth]

[Guessmyname]

That sums it up about right

[zwzsg]

TA is a classic, like starcraft, or command&conquer. if you cant understand the beauty of those games and instead have a inner need to mutilate them to your desires, its your loss

That's about what I think of every *A modder. Few to none *A modders understand the beauty of Total Annihlation(1), and every one of them has an irrepressible desire to mutilate TA(2) to their inner desire(3). Our loss.

(1) Stuff like how the information is shown graphically instead of through progress bar, percent, and hidden figures. For exemple, open factories with slowly filling frame. Missile being better against plane not just because of custom damage but because being guided they don't miss fast moving unit. (Just a few exemple, there's way more)

(2) Removing "useless units", descrating the visual cohesion by adding ugly third party unit, keeping the look while turning the role upside down, disregarding every other aspect in the futile pursuit of mathematical balance, and generally raping and pillaging and spawning horrible frankstein broken mutant monster from an eleven years old game instead of letting it rest in peace.

(3) All *A mods start with a: "disregard the hundred previous attempt at the exact same thing, my balance ideas are the more rightest than anything else."

[Guessmyname]

To be fair to the *A modders, Spring is a completely different engine. This holds three counterpoints:
1) If you wish to play pure OTA in all it's glory... you can. Go dig the disk out from wherever it is you keep it.
2) The balance of TA cannot be transferred directly into Spring as a perfect mirror. This is impossible. Well, damn close at any rate.
3) As OTA can still be accessed unharmed and untouched, why not let them have their fun? If you don't care for them, then... don't. Ignore them and stick to OTA

And as extra note:
We're talking about graphics here. Not the gameplay. Please stop talking about the gameplay! I'm sure you all have thousands of ideas for the 'perfect' translation of OTA into Spring, that doesn't matter! Improving the graphical quality of the models benefits everyone!*

*Except obviously for the non-*A modders (like me, ironically)

[Saktoth]

I agree with everything everyone said, come make models for CA.

[Guessmyname]

Haha, Sakoth has the right idea!

(Also: WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THIS DAMN MOVIE!)

[Otherside]

come make textures more important

[smoth]

(Also: WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THIS DAMN MOVIE!)

That is what you got for watching eva. Go watch Gurren Lagan to regain your testicles.

[Guessmyname]

Testicles be damned, I want my sanity. I just saw a giant Rei fall apart. Graphically.

Jeez, if I was an insomniac before this...

[Erom]

End of Evangelion... man, I want that hour of my life back.

[KDR_11k]

Eva gave me fucked up dreams and I haven't even watched it. Or maybe that was jsut the effect of my mind breaking under military training... Same thing really.

[Neddie]

I enjoyed Eva more as a manga than an anime.

Guessmyname, I feel your pain.

GO FORTH AND MODEL FOR CA! Unspoken corollary is that you don't refuse things on spurious style statements, a la Azaremoth's wonderful aircraft.

[rattle]

I liked the anime actually, minus the last two episodes, and have seen it about three times now over the last 10 years. Guess my brain shuts down when there is baw and reactivates during the cool battle scenes. :P

Anyway let's get back on topic.

[Forboding Angel]

The worst part about this entire thread is that Krog and slek's arguments are just plain bad. You can not look at it from any one direction and say "Oh yeah, that makes sense" o wai-



@mutilating TA, oh so true, even I did it, but mine was a hell of a lot of fun to plai

[smoth]

I am in no way trying to attack the Spring TA mods I am just trying to say that arguing that it would destroy what TA is would be silly as none of the TA mods are OTA and they cannot be as spring has augmented the gameplay soo much.

What I am saying is that the graphics are an important thing to take care of. I am not skilled enough is no excuse. Skill is only acquired through effort and it isn't that hard to do. I am not attacking the gameplay, if people want to make TA mods, they can do so until they are blue in the face. I just want people to start taking the art side of things seriously, adding units is all fine and good but an important part of a game like this one is it's graphics.

[TheRegisteredOne]

I like TA, but seriously, the "TA" that is being played by most springers right now is pretty fugly.

(2) Removing "useless units", descrating the visual cohesion by adding ugly third party unit, keeping the look while turning the role upside down, disregarding every other aspect in the futile pursuit of mathematical balance, and generally raping and pillaging and spawning horrible frankstein broken mutant monster from an eleven years old game instead of letting it rest in peace.

[rattle]

I am not skilled enough is no excuse. Skill is only acquired through effort, ...

...self-criticism and a looot of patience and constant practicing, especially when you're a slow learner. But it's definitely worth it and makes a nice hobby.