Do you mean:
let host decide if it's spring or minispring
let the mapmaker decide if it's spring or minispring
Make it always minispring and throw away old spring
I see now from your arguement that it would be unwise to allow both to exist as options in spring settings.
Also content deciding is a problem, what happens when I want to play a minispring map in spring sized mode and vice versa? People wont like the constraints, nor having to download minispring and spring versions of maps, which some of us have neither the time nor bandwidth to do.
MiniSpring Poll
Moderator: Moderators
@Atlantai Firestar :
I think having 2 version of TA is the worst.
Let the mapmake decide if it spring or minispring would be the best for me. But it is perhaps too much work
I would like to play a small map or an epic without asking myself if I want to play spring or miniSpring.
And it's better for the future. In 1 years or 2 when Spring will be at maturity, our hardware will be better.
But due to the variety of the community hardware. And the fact that a lot of player don't play map bigger than 24*24. I think it's bad to only have a "low quality" version of spring.
/atlantai Firestar
I think having 2 version of TA is the worst.
Let the mapmake decide if it spring or minispring would be the best for me. But it is perhaps too much work
I would like to play a small map or an epic without asking myself if I want to play spring or miniSpring.And it's better for the future. In 1 years or 2 when Spring will be at maturity, our hardware will be better.
But due to the variety of the community hardware. And the fact that a lot of player don't play map bigger than 24*24. I think it's bad to only have a "low quality" version of spring.
/atlantai Firestar
I agreed with you on the fact we cannot have both spring and minispring versions and gave arguements to support it.
I see what you are saying now, epic maps have minispring small maps have large or is it the other way round? Eitherway it would work but I disagree and imo either that or everything as minispring would be appropriate either way current spring is not satisfactory according to community opinion.
I see what you are saying now, epic maps have minispring small maps have large or is it the other way round? Eitherway it would work but I disagree and imo either that or everything as minispring would be appropriate either way current spring is not satisfactory according to community opinion.
-
Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Urgh, I, and others, have stated on a number of occasions, hell, the entire thread is about:
Replacing the old Spring size with the smaller scale as the default size for Spring in the next pack.
There cannot exist two sizes for Spring. It is either minispring, or the normal size. This is stated rather clearly in the poll.
As the mod is already there, there would be no point having a poll, as it is already optional. By sheer inference, the poll can only point to having a complete change.
And torrasque, your suggestion would halve the quality of maps. My suggestion rather improves the pixelated nature of units, as you can no longer zoom in as far as you could with normal sized Spring. The default viewing heights let you see less of a unit, so it's pixelated nature is not as visible.
Replacing the old Spring size with the smaller scale as the default size for Spring in the next pack.
There cannot exist two sizes for Spring. It is either minispring, or the normal size. This is stated rather clearly in the poll.
As the mod is already there, there would be no point having a poll, as it is already optional. By sheer inference, the poll can only point to having a complete change.
And torrasque, your suggestion would halve the quality of maps. My suggestion rather improves the pixelated nature of units, as you can no longer zoom in as far as you could with normal sized Spring. The default viewing heights let you see less of a unit, so it's pixelated nature is not as visible.
Then why not raise the maximum zoom level in the ota camera? would give the same results...And torrasque, your suggestion would halve the quality of maps. My suggestion rather improves the pixelated nature of units, as you can no longer zoom in as far as you could with normal sized Spring. The default viewing heights let you see less of a unit, so it's pixelated nature is not as visible.
I don't relly care about the maps being bigger/smaller, i just like being zommed in, other wise the units look pitfull and i have hard time controling the units.
-
Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Where is OTA's wallbanging smiley when you need it?
Simply making players zoom out further solves nothing. Spring already zooms out very far.
Minispring does more than just make units look smaller. This is a fundamental realisation that you need to make.
It changes the way the game is played - for the better.
Simply making players zoom out further solves nothing. Spring already zooms out very far.
Minispring does more than just make units look smaller. This is a fundamental realisation that you need to make.
It changes the way the game is played - for the better.
it doesnt matter what the units look like... people are already starting to develope replacement models, which will no doubt be accompanied by replacement textures. it wont be long (hopefully) before we have all the ota units redone.
minispring is all about making the gameplay alot better and more realistic.Minispring does more than just make units look smaller. This is a fundamental realisation that you need to make.
It changes the way the game is played - for the better.
Nice banana :D
Oh, and for the haters out there...
If you look at the screenshots of the Mars map I just released, the commander in them is the MiniSpring commander.
And if any of you had half a clue how the tileing system worked, you'd know that no argument on texture is worth it's weight in sewage because the textures are mipmaped out about 5 levels. So the closest zoom you can get you're seeing the original texture, but as you zoom out, you're seeing a more and more reduced version of the same file. The future you zoom out, the worse the image is going to be.
I cropped and saved out a DDS file for your viewing pleasure:
That's the original texture plus 2 mipmaps. I believe spring goes down to 4 mipmaps.
This is why, as you zoom out, you see the "grid" effect in the texture, because as they're compressed, you lose the perfect borders.
So ends Spring Textures 101.
-Buggi
Oh, and for the haters out there...
If you look at the screenshots of the Mars map I just released, the commander in them is the MiniSpring commander.
And if any of you had half a clue how the tileing system worked, you'd know that no argument on texture is worth it's weight in sewage because the textures are mipmaped out about 5 levels. So the closest zoom you can get you're seeing the original texture, but as you zoom out, you're seeing a more and more reduced version of the same file. The future you zoom out, the worse the image is going to be.
I cropped and saved out a DDS file for your viewing pleasure:
That's the original texture plus 2 mipmaps. I believe spring goes down to 4 mipmaps.
This is why, as you zoom out, you see the "grid" effect in the texture, because as they're compressed, you lose the perfect borders.
So ends Spring Textures 101.
-Buggi
can i at least make my opinion clear. i want their to be two versions of spring. i want minispring to be improved and be able to play it in the lobby (like OTA / AA patches but the thing being you could play minispring AND OTA/XTA/AA/SWTA etc) BUT i want this to be a side feature. i like the scaling atm maps are plenty big and so are the filesizes (I am on 56k and i'm fine!!!)
Minispring would defintely be fun once in a while eg. playing eternal struggle or that SWEET mars map. But weapon ranges etc would be huge compared to radar coverage etc and sight ranges would be massive once these issues are addressed as well as balancing i'd love to see this as a PART of Spring, like the OTA/AA patches etc. i do not want to lose the spring i love because some losers think this minispring is better in all circumstances. I want variety. I want choice, and i believe many other ppl do.
DO NOT REPLAACE THE SPRING I KNOW AND LOVE COZ OF THESE FOOLS. I beg of you and i agree with alantais graphic *snigger* interpretation. A cookie or a bannana? sometimes i'd like a bananna sometimes i'd like a cookie. its all about taste and accomadating for peoples wants and needs!
No Universal Version of Spring! Period! i want to be able to play big/mini spring, i want to play AA/SWTA/OTA/XTA. I like variety, i mean what about banoffee pie? that ice cream is teh sex and thats coz its got a lot opf different tastes and textures. (pretty good analagy eh? :D)
Minispring would defintely be fun once in a while eg. playing eternal struggle or that SWEET mars map. But weapon ranges etc would be huge compared to radar coverage etc and sight ranges would be massive once these issues are addressed as well as balancing i'd love to see this as a PART of Spring, like the OTA/AA patches etc. i do not want to lose the spring i love because some losers think this minispring is better in all circumstances. I want variety. I want choice, and i believe many other ppl do.
DO NOT REPLAACE THE SPRING I KNOW AND LOVE COZ OF THESE FOOLS. I beg of you and i agree with alantais graphic *snigger* interpretation. A cookie or a bannana? sometimes i'd like a bananna sometimes i'd like a cookie. its all about taste and accomadating for peoples wants and needs!
No Universal Version of Spring! Period! i want to be able to play big/mini spring, i want to play AA/SWTA/OTA/XTA. I like variety, i mean what about banoffee pie? that ice cream is teh sex and thats coz its got a lot opf different tastes and textures. (pretty good analagy eh? :D)
Well I├óÔé¼Ôäóm BACK after a week long hiatus. I vote Yes for Mini-spring, cause its not making units smaller! Its making maps BIGGER, by making units smaller. Confusing? YES! But it works great, and I should know, having tried it out! Also I think the reason why Warlord doesn├óÔé¼Ôäót want an option is because it causes theses annoying scenarios.
Map Designer: ├óÔé¼┼ôHurrah! I├óÔé¼Ôäóm going to make a fast paced map, set on Core Prime, where the players must battle each other in tight and restrictive hall ways!
Designers Good Side: ├óÔé¼┼ôBut we need to make the map good for Mini-Springer├óÔé¼Ôäós and normal Springer├óÔé¼Ôäós to!├óÔé¼┬Ø
MD: ├óÔé¼┼ôOh right! Well I don├óÔé¼Ôäót want the map to big, so ill design it for Mini-spring scale!├óÔé¼┬Ø
DGS: ├óÔé¼┼ôBut then regular spring will be hopelessly cramped!├óÔé¼┬Ø
MD: ├óÔé¼┼ôBloody hell, your right! I will have to make it for Normal Spring then! But wait! THE MAP WILL BE TO BIG FOR MINI-SPRINGER├óÔé¼ÔäóS!├óÔé¼┬Ø
MD beats his head against his monitor in frustration. His map will either be to big, or to small, so he will be forced to make a generalized map with no realy tight space├óÔé¼Ôäós, and no huge space├óÔé¼Ôäós for the fear that they will be either too large or too small for wither Regular and Mini!
An option would be nice for people who afraid of change, but if would unfortunately cause problems for balanced maps.
Map Designer: ├óÔé¼┼ôHurrah! I├óÔé¼Ôäóm going to make a fast paced map, set on Core Prime, where the players must battle each other in tight and restrictive hall ways!
Designers Good Side: ├óÔé¼┼ôBut we need to make the map good for Mini-Springer├óÔé¼Ôäós and normal Springer├óÔé¼Ôäós to!├óÔé¼┬Ø
MD: ├óÔé¼┼ôOh right! Well I don├óÔé¼Ôäót want the map to big, so ill design it for Mini-spring scale!├óÔé¼┬Ø
DGS: ├óÔé¼┼ôBut then regular spring will be hopelessly cramped!├óÔé¼┬Ø
MD: ├óÔé¼┼ôBloody hell, your right! I will have to make it for Normal Spring then! But wait! THE MAP WILL BE TO BIG FOR MINI-SPRINGER├óÔé¼ÔäóS!├óÔé¼┬Ø
MD beats his head against his monitor in frustration. His map will either be to big, or to small, so he will be forced to make a generalized map with no realy tight space├óÔé¼Ôäós, and no huge space├óÔé¼Ôäós for the fear that they will be either too large or too small for wither Regular and Mini!
An option would be nice for people who afraid of change, but if would unfortunately cause problems for balanced maps.
MDs should make the map for spring. if u think it is big use spring. if u think its too small uise minispring. coz gameplay should remain ~ the same you choose what size you want the map. Make maps for Spring, if its too small it encourages rushing if u don't like that *points finger at Zoombie * use minispring. if u think map is too big PLAY ANOTHER THERES STILL A FAIR BIT OF CHOICE ATM!!! 
* use minispring. if u think map is too big PLAY ANOTHER THERES STILL A FAIR BIT OF CHOICE ATM!!! Min3mat, this won't work. There are 3 important reasons.MDs should make the map for spring. if u think it is big use spring. if u think its too small uise minispring. coz gameplay should remain ~ the same you choose what size you want the map. Make maps for Spring, if its too small it encourages rushing if u don't like that *points finger at Zoombie Razz* use minispring. if u think map is too big PLAY ANOTHER THERES STILL A FAIR BIT OF CHOICE ATM!!!
1) As has been mentioned many times before, mapmaking is a delicate art. It is dependant upon, among other things, knowing how big the units are, how far they can fire, and how quickly they move. Minispring changes all of these things, and not choosing one as a standard will render the maps not as fun at best, or extremely buggy at worst.
2) The amount of work necessary to accept buggi's patch is minimal. Maybe a couple hours? The amount of work required to make it easy to choose between them is going to be much bigger.
3) Most importantly, we must realize that the NUMBER ONE reason why people don't play spring is because it is so freaking difficult to get a game. Anything which divides the community will make it even MORE difficult to get a game, which will make spring even less popular. We, as a community, must choose minispring or normal spring.
I personally think minispring will be better. I like all the changes it makes. But we must choose one or the other. So far, based on the vote, it looks like we are choosing minispring.
And guess what! If you don't like minispring, you can recompile the current maps quite easily to be half their current dimensions. Then NOTHING will have changed for you. So since this change adds choice (larger maps) without taking any away (you can still have the EXACT same gameplay) and without fracturing the community, I think anyone who votes no is a big wet blanket, and wants to ruin our fun.
Does anyone from SY want to comment on any potential downsides to this that we may have not considered?
-
[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
For anyone that is lazy/stupid, Gnome said this: Min3mat for soem reason gives me the impression that eh thinks that minispring is different from AA OTA SWTA etc. Minispring is a version fo the engien thats been amde smaller, it effects mdos yes but it is not a mod in itself, so swta etc still play only the untis are smaller...
Just to clear that up for some people.
And yah, thats everythign done and dusted, the community has givent he SY's minispring, the community wants minispring, it's the size that OTA units where and it doubles the maximum map size, and makes trees more realistic, and making zooming in closer a lot more usefula dn seeing mroe units when zoomed out, aka double zoom out. It also reduces the filesize for existign maps that can be remade at half the size.
Now really, why people are still objecting to minispring is beyond me, once the maps are resized it'll look identical to ordinary spring btu with slightly bigger trees (which can be changed of course)
Just to clear that up for some people.
And yah, thats everythign done and dusted, the community has givent he SY's minispring, the community wants minispring, it's the size that OTA units where and it doubles the maximum map size, and makes trees more realistic, and making zooming in closer a lot more usefula dn seeing mroe units when zoomed out, aka double zoom out. It also reduces the filesize for existign maps that can be remade at half the size.
Now really, why people are still objecting to minispring is beyond me, once the maps are resized it'll look identical to ordinary spring btu with slightly bigger trees (which can be changed of course)