Great idea! Spring radars should be able to display stealth units as well, or else it's not realistic!Tobi wrote:The most advanced radars currently can even see stealth objects
(sorry for the trolling, couldn't help it)
Minimap ball shapes suggestion - reason: colors
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Guessmyname
- Posts: 3301
- Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 21:07
Mod-dependant. Some mods (TA:WD for instance) might want you to be able to see what unit type is on radar. If we can define a radar bitmap on a per-unit basis, it doesn't mean OTA/AA/Whatever's gameplay is changed - they can just make all the units use the same radar blip.TradeMark wrote:And if we let players see the type of the unit, then it will change the gameplay, because i cant fool people anymore with low level units trying to look like big army, meanwhile i attack with small group of better units from other direction. :wink:
As for fooling players with what looks like a big army - with customisable radar blips we could make a unit designed for the purpose! (Small unit, large radar blip or maybe have it as a cluster of smaller blips with lots of weapons that are really low-powered - basically something that will divert your enemies attention away from whatever else it is you're doing)
We'll need to have the radar blips skinnable anyways, and it'd be a ncie feature.
However I think a HW1/2 style sensor mdoe is still the way to go because it doesnt need the minimap, it just needs you to zoom out a long long way which can be done quickly if holding shift down,and can be displayed ont he map without affecting the minimap, and could be on/offable through a keybinding or settings....
It'd brign with it all the advantages it gave HW, being able to zoom out to extreme distance, filtering out irrelevant graphical data, simplifyign the view into more useful data, speeding up the game with onyl displayignt he models of big unitsand anythign that's below a certain size (say 100x100pixels) is pushed down into a billboarding model with a symbol on it. We can get rid of map texture in this mode and simply have simple shading of a single colour, with another colour for anything under water depth in just a semitransparent plane of colour with no effects applied.
Infact such a sensor mode could be made default and have an option in settings to prevent switching to normal mode,allowing springs lower hardware requirements to be extended downwards a lot further.
Also I'm not aware of any RTS that does this other than space strategy games.......
However I think a HW1/2 style sensor mdoe is still the way to go because it doesnt need the minimap, it just needs you to zoom out a long long way which can be done quickly if holding shift down,and can be displayed ont he map without affecting the minimap, and could be on/offable through a keybinding or settings....
It'd brign with it all the advantages it gave HW, being able to zoom out to extreme distance, filtering out irrelevant graphical data, simplifyign the view into more useful data, speeding up the game with onyl displayignt he models of big unitsand anythign that's below a certain size (say 100x100pixels) is pushed down into a billboarding model with a symbol on it. We can get rid of map texture in this mode and simply have simple shading of a single colour, with another colour for anything under water depth in just a semitransparent plane of colour with no effects applied.
Infact such a sensor mode could be made default and have an option in settings to prevent switching to normal mode,allowing springs lower hardware requirements to be extended downwards a lot further.
Also I'm not aware of any RTS that does this other than space strategy games.......
Note that I didn't want realistic radars in spring, I just pointed out what they are capable of. As I said in my earlier post, I don't really like any of the ideas here, I'd just vote for keeping things as they are. I'd definitely oppose to making the radars realistic as it would really overpower them and change the entire gameplay...zwzsg wrote:Great idea! Spring radars should be able to display stealth units as well, or else it's not realistic!Tobi wrote:The most advanced radars currently can even see stealth objects
(sorry for the trolling, couldn't help it)
I dont personally like that idea, because its too hard to see the happenings on the map. With minimap you can always see them quickly, without pressing any keys.AF wrote:However I think a HW1/2 style sensor mdoe is still the way to go because it doesnt need the minimap, it just needs you to zoom out a long long way which can be done quickly if holding shift down,and can be displayed ont he map without affecting the minimap, and could be on/offable through a keybinding or settings....
But if it is optional, it doesnt matter for me. Everything new and optional is always good...
huh? The only difference is the texture is simplified greatly, and the untis are icons!!!! If anything it should look almost identical save the last 2 points, and anyways you're nto going to see your untis in full detail zoomed out seeing the map in its entirety, just look at SupCom when it's zoomed out lots, their untis and weapons fire are all icons.
Go play homeworld 1/2 multiplayer, see how most good players spend the majority fo their time in sensor mode, it's a very powerful tool for representign the entire battlefield in its entirety in great detail as if you're up close while displaying data a minimap is too small for and up close is too big.....
Besides it'll be needed with zaphods new renderer and provides a much better ay of issuing command son the minimap, aswell as a good opportunity to make use of zoom in on mouse cursor.
Who on earth will make use of the huge zoom out in the new map renderer if the units are too small to be spotted never ming recognised.
Go play homeworld 1/2 multiplayer, see how most good players spend the majority fo their time in sensor mode, it's a very powerful tool for representign the entire battlefield in its entirety in great detail as if you're up close while displaying data a minimap is too small for and up close is too big.....
Besides it'll be needed with zaphods new renderer and provides a much better ay of issuing command son the minimap, aswell as a good opportunity to make use of zoom in on mouse cursor.
Who on earth will make use of the huge zoom out in the new map renderer if the units are too small to be spotted never ming recognised.
http://www.supcomuniverse.com/?p=image&id=138
That can be done in spring if untis changed to symbols when zoomed out, imagine trying to make out units if those icons where the equivilant of a 10x10 square of krogothes....
That can be done in spring if untis changed to symbols when zoomed out, imagine trying to make out units if those icons where the equivilant of a 10x10 square of krogothes....
I would like to have a way of representing units that:
- allows you to easilly spot what is allied and what is enemy
- allows you to dicern type of unit (aircraft, ground, building)
- allows you to still recognize what player it is
I think that it can be done by using
- colors for player
- shapes for type of unit
- special markings to quickly tell what is allied and what enemy.
Special markings could be for example "cross" drawn across the symbol or something with similar visual impact. Cross would have to be in different color for different symbol colors though..
Here is what I mean:
- allows you to easilly spot what is allied and what is enemy
- allows you to dicern type of unit (aircraft, ground, building)
- allows you to still recognize what player it is
I think that it can be done by using
- colors for player
- shapes for type of unit
- special markings to quickly tell what is allied and what enemy.
Special markings could be for example "cross" drawn across the symbol or something with similar visual impact. Cross would have to be in different color for different symbol colors though..
Here is what I mean:
We cant see small shapes in the minimap, so the crosses wont work.
I still agree that the enemy and unit should be just different shaped.
To see the types of the units, we need at least 4 different shapes, but they will just mix together in the minimap. Thats why only TWO shapes for allies and enemies is the best.
And i still dont like the idea to see which units they are, they will change the gameplay, as i said before.
I still agree that the enemy and unit should be just different shaped.
To see the types of the units, we need at least 4 different shapes, but they will just mix together in the minimap. Thats why only TWO shapes for allies and enemies is the best.
And i still dont like the idea to see which units they are, they will change the gameplay, as i said before.
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Tim Blokdijk
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18
There are Nato symbols that can be useful.
Not that this has much priority imho.
Not that this has much priority imho.
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Deathblane
- Posts: 505
- Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 01:22
In HW there was a very similar system to that. Pressing Tab would bring up a 'tactical' display that put a symbol around eachof you're ships indicating what they were. While obviously redundent for the normal range you play spring at it coudl be very usefull if the SuperCom/HW style extended zoom is enabled.
Obviously sensor dots would still show up as sensor dots but known units could have optional tactical symbols instead of dots.
Probably something simpler than the NATO system would be best but modders should have the ability to add their own symbols.
Obviously sensor dots would still show up as sensor dots but known units could have optional tactical symbols instead of dots.
Probably something simpler than the NATO system would be best but modders should have the ability to add their own symbols.