Energy conservation hysteria

[BrainDamage]

To be fair, the amount of energy wasted by AC adaptors is disgusting. I just keep all my recharging doodads on a single power-strip and turn it off if nothing's charging.

.. what?

typical efficiencies for switching power supplies ( nowdays the most common ) is on average around 80%, if you refer to those tiny gadgets power supplies, then sum of wasted energy from conversion for all chargers will probably reach few watts at most

Since conservation of energy applies, all the energy wasted in your devices can be used to heat up your room, so when its cold outside it doesn't matter how much energy your CPU uses.

if you use the thermal energy to warm up the room, then the dissipation efficiency of the heatsink decays ( temperature gradient is smaller ) and the chip will warm up, if you apply arrehnius formula to the higher work temp, you'll get a shorter lifetime of the device, so it will need to be replaced sooner ( this ofc unless you already change processor regularry to "keep up with tech" ), you might wanna include the price of the new cpu into account

[AF]

Id do it anyways, because those transformers, regardless of their power efficiency, make horrible high pitched buzzing noises that drive me mad when Ive turned everything off and try to get to sleep

[lurker]

typical efficiencies for switching power supplies ( nowdays the most common ) is on average around 80%, if you refer to those tiny gadgets power supplies, then sum of wasted energy from conversion for all chargers will probably reach few watts at most

I really doubt most of those tiny things are switching, and they can take a good amount of power.

lifetime

Have you really had any CPU die from wear? I would expect things like capacitors and power regulators to do that.

[Tribulex]

lol is OP serious or dicking around or both?

[KaiserJ]

what annoys me about all of it... i feel like im pretty ecologically minded... i don't create a lot of garbage, i don't waste a lot of electricity, i take the bus, own a bike, wear my clothes until they disintegrate...

and then there's everyone else around me... on one side i see a house with two SUVs. on the other, a SUV and a v8. across the road, another v8, with houses with two SUVs on the other side. only a few houses out of the hundreds on my street own a vehicle with six cylinders or less. i should note, all of these people are white collar workers... hell, some people NEED big trucks for work, but these fuckers could easily get by with less. im probably the only person on the road who could actually USE a big truck; i rent one as the need dictates.

before the winter i saw one of these asshats burning a pile of leaves; i dont even use my charcoal barbeque anymore because its too smoky (and illegal in my city for this reason)

so really, no matter what i do, theres always going to be someone older and richer than me who just doesnt care. the only way i can reduce the carbon footprint around me anymore is if you were to hand me some grenades.

but really if we're going to go that route, lets just nuke china. i don't know anyone who lives there.

[Tribulex]

i like the nukes and grenades option. Maybe the US can put all that money it puts into weaponry and nukular misseyuls to good use. Then nuke itself.

[PicassoCT]

Forb, the goverment is allowed to force you and your children away from drugs...

That is a state by state issue and therefore voted in by the people. Taxation attempting to force people into doing this stuff is NOT voted on by the people, it is rammed home by congress, population be damned.

Sidenote: If a fat chick falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, do the trees laugh?

Ever considered that people could vote wrong, for example following the campaings of some millionairs voting for a bankrupt california instead of taxes?


Forb, I guess this is a anniverseray, one hundred headbangs in political threads, so for once let us discuss even long after the trolls came in. All the following conclusions are drawn on the assumption I understood you right in this thread and the 101 threads before, so if I m wrong feel free to correct it.

You stated, that everybody should be free of state regulations, to go about his own business, reducing the state to the (in?)famous nightwatchstate, basically declaring that every attempt of central government is automatically doomed because it takes intiative out of the citizens, reduces them in political terms to underage children and decends on longterm into corrupt tyranny.
Now, all the sudden the european faction of the spring board jumped to its feet in a collective ambush upon all freedome loving folks? If it only was that easy.

If I step outside, I have two kilometers too the next Roman-Ruin, a villa with bathhouse, they tried centralized government, including waters supply, street building, slavery and were driven home by freedome loving local patriots, who prefered the dark middle ages to sewers and industrialization.
If I dont travell that far, there is a chapell, dedicated to those who fell in the freedom wars against the napoleonic occupation (france occupied a hundred little kingdoms, later know as germany). What the bavarians fought against was tyranny, but one that had a lawbook in mind (code napoleon) for bavaria, which instead was later on ruled by a insane king who, spending the states moneychest building useless castles - is one of the seldome do-gooders in this history, because those castles became famous touristtraps later on, giving jobs to the decendants of the peasants who starved to built them.

Difficult to find some absolut truth in that mess? Agreed.
So how about a greyzoned truth?
State Regulations for everyone can be usefull, and if done wrong, can be very harmfull. So the populations has to have the ability (by vote) to undo a wrong regulation. In addition the population can be tricked, cheated, corrupted (oh, such a sweet poison the debt everybody shares) or just ignorant, which also goes for the people of the centralized goverment. So both sides have to have legislated ÔÇ£difficultÔÇØ ways to temporary override the will of the other side. You Forb could form a new party today, which has a refined understanding of which subjects have to be free(undecided) and which have to be law&ordered. It would work, for ten years, maybe twenty, before power would corrupt them, and some idealistic, younger Forb would have to start again.

You stated that this was no way and implied again, that mentioned above nightwatchstate would be more ideal, even better if local goverments would be run by you (every passenger on a plane today is either doctor or pilot I presume). Now, unfortunalty we tried the nightwatch in europe, several times, the results were civil wars, industries exploiting people and enviroment, crime (which is today prevented by social insurrence and public healthcare, which the us has to provide in prisons) and some other countrys (africa, india, and in parts even china) around the world who try it, right now and the results are not very promising.
Please accept for once that there is good reasoning behind some government laws and that just standing besides somebody who for example is eating himself to dead, stating ÔÇ£He is a grown adult, he know what he does, the freedom of choice annihilates every least remaining responsibility for society and humanityÔÇØ is just political escapism in my eyes.

Have a nice day, because mine was ruined by writing this wall of text.



http://www.worstpolluted.org/reports/f ... 202009.pdf

[tombom]

But we CAN control it, and its cheaper, energy saving light bulbs ftw

You honestly think that humans can control the earth's climate? Good luck with that one.

The whole climate deal is what this is about. For myself, imo if you want to recycle, then hell yes, be energy effecient, fuck yeah good on ya! But don't try to force everyone else into it as well.

even if global warming was a complete myth, energy and resource conservation would still be a massive deal

i'm pretty sure even a total idiot can understand use something a lot = it runs out

[Teutooni]

Since conservation of energy applies, all the energy wasted in your devices can be used to heat up your room

This.

I have 2 computers running 24/7, forget lights on at day etc, but anything I could do to save energy would be a drop of water in the massive pool of energy needed to heat this house (I live in Finland, remember?). Any "waste" heat produced isn't actually a bad thing if there's -25 degrees celsius outside and +19 inside.

[Forboding Angel]

For the love of christ picasso, you have it all wrong. Apparently you didn't understand what I said.

First off, let me say that I only read the first three paragraphs because if I addressed everything it would take all day, so lets take it point by point.

Ever considered that people could vote wrong, for example following the campaings of some millionairs voting for a bankrupt california instead of taxes?

Spoken like a true liberal. Perhaps instead of taxing the shit out of the people in the state, you clamp down on illegal immigrants that are costing the state millions of dollars, and you spend money wisely, how bout that?

You obviously don't get this, but california is already one of the highest taxing states in the union. Raising them higher isn't going to help. You HAVE to cut back your spending, balance your damn budget, and start cutting the deadweight (In the case of California, this means Illegal Aliens).

You stated, that everybody should be free of state regulations, to go about his own business, reducing the state to the (in?)famous nightwatchstate, basically declaring that every attempt of central government is automatically doomed because it takes intiative out of the citizens, reduces them in political terms to underage children and decends on longterm into corrupt tyranny.

What in the heck are you talking about? That is the exact opposite of what I said! Read this very carefully. I'll even make it big so you can get it.

The US is 50 states united by a single federal government. For too long the federal government has been mandating state issues. The federal government needs to be bitchslapped and stop trying to mandate things that should be at the state level for the entire country.

I'll even explain it again so you can get it. Lets use abortion... that's another hot topic. Abortion is currently legal because of roe vs wade. For whatever reason the judicial branch has allowed this to happen. Not the legislative branch. This is fucked because abortion is a state issue. The people of the US did not get to vote on abortion. If roe vs wade were overturned, the states could then either legalize it, or outlaw it on a state by state basis depending on how the people in that state voted.

The US is a republic. I understand that is hard for you guys to understand. Let me try to explain it in a concise manner.

In the case of the US, we have 50 states with their own governments. For all intents and purposes the 50 states are all their own little countries. These states are united under a single federal government which can dictate laws for all the people in all of the states to follow.

Do you understand a little bit better now? So when I say that things are a state issue, I'm saying that at the state level, each state would have it's own vote on a particular item. In some states it would be legal, in other states it would be illegal. There is nothing to stop you from driving to a neighboring state and doing there what you couldn't do legally in your own.

Sigh, the sad part is that I highly doubt you'll understand anything of what I just said.

even if global warming was a complete myth, energy and resource conservation would still be a massive deal

i'm pretty sure even a total idiot can understand use something a lot = it runs out

Well... duh. Are you insinuating that I'm a total idiot? That's nice, especially considering that I agree with you. So if I'm an "idjit" does that make you an "ignoramous"?

[KaiserJ]

you guys are so cute <3

let me try and translate picassonian to forbodingese.

you're both saying that no amount of federal/imperial/colonial government can meet the needs and wants of the people.

you're both saying that you feel a mistrust and detatchment from the government that rules over you and how they deal with problems or have dealt with problems in the past.

the real difference of what your viewpoints are, is that forb feels his government is driving his country into the ground, and that picasso has evidence that this has already happened time and time again where he lives.

now that we have that out of the way, please go back to arguing semantics :D

*edit* our real enemies are in linfen china as we speak, mining and burning coal!

[AF]

India too, see the entire provinces with coal burning under their feet being told to evacuate so they can quench the fire and sell the coal...

[KaiserJ]

fff and over here, mining out the alberta oil sands and turning an entire province into muck...

[SinbadEV]

TLDR Thread:

My 2 cents, Stupid everyone, Nuclear is clean (except for the NASTY waste products that obviously need to be dealt with better, but then again coal and oils smog is sort-of worse because it's in the atmosphere instead of being berried in exhausted mines or whatever) so we should use that and make enough energy for everyone to have as much crap plugged in at the same time as they want... and invest as much money as we can into cleaner better ways of getting electricity (like solar or biomass processing or whatever)... also we need to keep making everything take less electricity and sometime in the next 50 years or so everything that's old will be obsolete or broken enough that people will get rid of it and upgrade... and then we'll work out the whole nano-factories thing from Diamond age, the manufacturing industry will collapse and no one will care about electricity because we are too worried about the limited availability of food and water because the population has exploded again because anyone can get any medicine for the physical material cost of the pills which is trivial and then someone will figure out a way to synthesize healthy food and water from non-carbon based molecules and we'll start colonizing the moon, mars and the rest of the solar system with out ultra-efficient solar and pure hydrogen powered personal space-crafts...

[PicassoCT]

But in some competitions inbetween states, like in a dirty streetfigth, the one setting the lowest standards wins. Basically you could say, that the globalized world today is the america that Forb dreams of - nearly no centralized goverment, loads of diffrent concepts in competition. But some trouble doesent stop at borders scribbled on a map. And the centralized goverment only responsible for outside-security & affiars is a nightwatch state by definition.

I couldnt find the satellite picture that showed chinas emission beeing blown over the pacific, but they clearly didnt care about borders, and they are forcing other states of the world in sort of a downward competition just not to constantly loose workplaces and industry towards places were a tomorrows-enviroment is a


At least i found the link towards the tax-cap, which faded in by directdemocratic means, shows how powerfull the PR-Campaigns of the Riches are in such a surrounding. And thats my whole point again, your proposed competition forces the nightwatch state down the throats of people who wouldnt want it, simply by a shortsighted, helpless leviathan beeing the cheapest one to stable, winning against other stateforms, while making everyone inside loosing alot from the comon goods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California ... %281978%29

[Columbus]

Since conservation of energy applies, all the energy wasted in your devices can be used to heat up your room

This.

I have 2 computers running 24/7, forget lights on at day etc, but anything I could do to save energy would be a drop of water in the massive pool of energy needed to heat this house (I live in Finland, remember?). Any "waste" heat produced isn't actually a bad thing if there's -25 degrees celsius outside and +19 inside.

Hell yea. I'm actually glad my computer produces so much heat, it keeps the room warm
Ain't much warmer here in Estonia.

[Gota]

Since conservation of energy applies, all the energy wasted in your devices can be used to heat up your room

This.

I have 2 computers running 24/7, forget lights on at day etc, but anything I could do to save energy would be a drop of water in the massive pool of energy needed to heat this house (I live in Finland, remember?). Any "waste" heat produced isn't actually a bad thing if there's -25 degrees celsius outside and +19 inside.

Hell yea. I'm actually glad my computer produces so much heat, it keeps the room warm
Ain't much warmer here in Estonia.

Heh Same.

[tombom]

even if global warming was a complete myth, energy and resource conservation would still be a massive deal

i'm pretty sure even a total idiot can understand use something a lot = it runs out

Well... duh. Are you insinuating that I'm a total idiot? That's nice, especially considering that I agree with you. So if I'm an "idjit" does that make you an "ignoramous"?

I wasn't insinuating you're an idiot (I realise it came out that way, sorry). Just saying.

[Umbra]

My plan to solve the world's energy problem.

Create a square mega-meter scale solar array in space. The power produced by the array is either stored in a battery, or fed directly into an orbital elevator(s) that carries the power directly to the surface of the planet, where it is distributed from there.

Possible candidates for a powerful battery might include storing the energy in hafnium as a nuclear isomer. Such a battery would only weigh 500,000 kilograms if enough energy is stored to last the entire planet a year(At 20 terawatts power consumption).

Only issue with that, however, is that storing the energy is quite hard. Currently use of a particle accelerator is required. When you extract the energy back out of the hafnium, it extracts the energy as gamma-rays, and requires a reactor capable of dealing with those gamma-rays, and not turn radio-active in the process(If you want the entire setup to be clean, and harmful byproduct free).

[Forboding Angel]

But in some competitions inbetween states, like in a dirty streetfigth, the one setting the lowest standards wins.

No it doesn't, read up on your history, and having a gander at the US constitution and bill of rights wouldn't be a horrible idea. In everything you say, there is a reek of misunderstanding of how things work, and you wonder why amerifags tell eurofags to shut your pieholes...