Completely inappropriate behavior, and the results

[Acidd_UK]

But you realise at some point you have to release the mod (otherwise what's the point of making it available to anyone other than yourself anyway) and at that point ppl can still violate the licence if they so wish....

[el_matarife]

"Going dark" aka Cathedral from Cathedral and the Bazaar is one of the dumbest mistakes an open source developer can make. There's a reason CA makes every build public, it gets them a ton more testers and feedback, and thus makes more rapid development possible. Sure, it shows some of their mistakes and wild attempts at trying something crazy, but that's just part of the process. I don't think anyone here believes they've never made a mistake, and being all paranoid about making a game design mistake in public is clearly causing you tons of emotional stress you don't need.

Seriously, publicly release every incremental step, write up a long term roadmap, and enjoy a newly tranquil existence.

[SwiftSpear]

"Going dark" aka Cathedral from Cathedral and the Bazaar is one of the dumbest mistakes an open source developer can make. There's a reason CA makes every build public, it gets them a ton more testers and feedback, and thus makes more rapid development possible. Sure, it shows some of their mistakes and wild attempts at trying something crazy, but that's just part of the process. I don't think anyone here believes they've never made a mistake, and being all paranoid about making a game design mistake in public is clearly causing you tons of emotional stress you don't need.

Seriously, publicly release every incremental step, write up a long term roadmap, and enjoy a newly tranquil existence.

I'm partially convinced that this methodology is a major factor in the reason why so many OS and modding projects flop so harshly. When they make their first release "ooooh, new stuff!" crew comes in, quickly gets bored, and doesn't spread any word of mouth, and the project spirals into obscurity. With the few projects that do make a highly impressive first release, or legitimately show tonnes of potential, THEY get the world of mouth spread on them, usually just because of that little bit more polish. People treat a buggy or incomplete game like a bad game, even when that's not the case.

[el_matarife]

I get the paranoia about the "first impression" test, but that's only an issue when you first launch a major version. That's why most projects have a "Stable" release and an "Unstable" testing branch. All you need to do is clearly label your releases and never ever present an "unstable" snapshot as a real release.

[YokoZar]

I get the paranoia about the "first impression" test, but that's only an issue when you first launch a major version. That's why most projects have a "Stable" release and an "Unstable" testing branch. All you need to do is clearly label your releases and never ever present an "unstable" snapshot as a real release.

This. No one expects foo-0.0.1--pre-alpha to be perfect, good, or even remotely usable. This is especially true of users who are sophisticated enough to even FIND such early releases. These are exactly the kind of sophisticated users who you want to download and give you early feedback on your project - they can tell you right away about major design flaws, or if you're not willing to entertain those ideas you can at least hear bug reports. You were testing for a reason, right?

[Tribulexrenamed]

I want to release something that is balanced, complete, and playable. I dont want people to play my game and label it as unbalanced buggy shit. Also, I have an ego and I want to impress people. I have been working on this for a year ¨in the dark¨ and all has gone quite well, so I see no reason to stop now. I have the opinions that I want, and I dont need any more until i decide to make a release, or until i invite a human being to my house for private testing on my own machine. Obviously this kind of thing doesnt work over the internets. Hell, i may never release this publicly on Spring Engine, maybe i can make some money!

Basically, its my project, dont TOUCH IT, dont TELL ME WHAT TO DO, and DONT DISTRIBUTE IT. In fact, I demand that you DELETE IT!

[Acidd_UK]

I want to release something that is balanced, complete, and playable. I dont want people to play my game and label it as unbalanced buggy shit.

Unfortunatly, this is nearly impossible. Jusy look at any commercially released RTS game from the last 20 years or so. They're all buggy to some degree and certainly unbalanced until the first few patches are released due to user balance feedback. These are games produced by large development teams with dedicated testers.

Do not expect to make a perfect first release. Then realise that releasing regular test builds even of buggy/unbalanced code will give you much better, gradual feedback.

[SwiftSpear]

Just to clarify, debate on the issue, argue over what is better for whatever reasons, fine. But the content creators request to have their license respected is not up for debate. Weather is development ideology is right or wrong, he has the right to control how his content is used. If he wants to change his mind, fine, but it's not anyone's right to use content against the will of it's creator for any reason.

[==Troy==]

Speaking about the spring projects going commercial.

you MUST release the sources, due to GPL, and all that means is if the project gains any reasonable popularity it will be taken by someone else and either face the TA fate, or will be remodelled, which is a problem, but look at CA.

Actually even Quake3 GPL engine release was delayed due to some companies still wanting to make commercial stuff with it. Since when GPL release is done, the game looses its value.


Edit: Actually, does anyone know about at least a single successful commercial release with GPL engine? I can be easily missing one, but personally havent heard about a single one.

[smoth]

Edit: Actually, does anyone know about at least a single successful commercial release with GPL engine? I can be easily missing one, but personally havent heard about a single one.

My bravia came with a copy of the gpl included. I loled.

[lurker]

Only the code is gpl, for most things around here it's not nearly half of the work.

[smoth]

lurker is rite. lets not get stupid. please stop with the gpl stuff, there is a sticky thread for that.

[Warlord Zsinj]

I'm partially convinced that this methodology is a major factor in the reason why so many OS and modding projects flop so harshly. When they make their first release "ooooh, new stuff!" crew comes in, quickly gets bored, and doesn't spread any word of mouth, and the project spirals into obscurity. With the few projects that do make a highly impressive first release, or legitimately show tonnes of potential, THEY get the world of mouth spread on them, usually just because of that little bit more polish. People treat a buggy or incomplete game like a bad game, even when that's not the case.

Precisely the reason we are keeping our beta closed until release. But we're a little different in that we'll get a lot of people to try our mod simply because of the Star Wars name - and those people may not necessarily be familiar with open source projects and the inherently rough-round-the-edges nature of them.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

tribulex, if you need testers give me a PM

[Tribulexrenamed]

Lol, all the people who tested my flash mod and who play XTA with me want to test my mod. This gives me epic lulz.





Sure, people can ask me about testing. If your lucky, I'll pay for your plane ticket to my private testing facility in Haiti. If you're really lucky ill pay for your ticket back to your home. If you are really really lucky you live in Haiti already and you can just stop by if you would like.

So pretty much im not open to testers. Not after this.

Thank you to swiftspear for reading what I write and understanding it.

[Hoi]

Lol you just have to make sure that you don't give it to the wrong people.

[KDR_11k]

This. No one expects foo-0.0.1--pre-alpha to be perfect, good, or even remotely usable.

Except the Spring community who will tell you about the faults of an early pre-alpha when you invite them to a 1.0 game.

[el_matarife]

Only if your project never has improved or fixed a few fundamental flaws.

[Sefidel]

i read this whole article and it is the most crybaby shit in the world. wah. someone liked my stuff enough to show it to someone else.

grow up

[PicassoCT]

Reverse Piratpsychology is dancing through this Thread wearing a TinFoilhat, singing "Rip me Baby one more time.."