Lua it.VonGratz wrote:Also, if implemented, I would like to see something like a radar detection, that would enable or not , anti-radar missiles to get these installations when they would be turn-on, or not if they would be turn-off.
Im testing for the next version of my mod anti-radar missiles, but, for while, they can hit all radar tag unit in the missile range ,in operation or not , what not is very good.
vonGratz
Implementing a more realistic radar in a mod?
Moderator: Moderators
Only for air, naval forces :idea: , and maybe land forces in plains[Krogoth86] wrote: A real radar only is for air so put the stealth tag on all your ground units if you want just that. ..
The idea to stealth land forces, or the small/medium sized ones is great
.I always though that the land based radar range viz-a-viz awacs are unreal ingame.
Planes have a very large horizon than land based installations.
Exception for some "top of a big mountain" radar, but I think that the radar range dont change with the altitude variation in Spring.
VonGratz
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
You're not thinking hard enough, then, Krogoth.
Right now, radar is very hardcoded to a single mindset, and there is little creativity allowed in terms of what a modder can do with it.
You could have an insect race which cannot see at all except for radar blips without a LOS brainbug nearby, or you could have infantry that are able to tell at the edge of their sight that there is an 'enemy', but cannot identify it, so it becomes a radar blip. IIRC S:1944 has some weird radar system working at the moment to get their artillery spotting working, and cannot use radar for anything else. Those aren't possible simultaneously with other methods at the moment, and they ought to be.
If you can't think beyond radar that is either air-only or ground-only, you really aren't thinking beyond what TA has to offer.
Right now, radar is very hardcoded to a single mindset, and there is little creativity allowed in terms of what a modder can do with it.
You could have an insect race which cannot see at all except for radar blips without a LOS brainbug nearby, or you could have infantry that are able to tell at the edge of their sight that there is an 'enemy', but cannot identify it, so it becomes a radar blip. IIRC S:1944 has some weird radar system working at the moment to get their artillery spotting working, and cannot use radar for anything else. Those aren't possible simultaneously with other methods at the moment, and they ought to be.
If you can't think beyond radar that is either air-only or ground-only, you really aren't thinking beyond what TA has to offer.
My idea on how radar should work:
There are N "sight-systems". For each visibility-system, you can have detectors, cloaks, stealths, and jammers.
You provide a metadata file in the modinfo that describes each visibility system - how it appears to the user. It can be blur (seismic), dot, icon, or visible-unit. For dots/icons, you also provide jitter-values there. All of these settings can be overridden by detectors.
Each unit (and projectile) has a detectability multiplier for each sight system. For current Spring behaviour, default is 1 for all systems for all units - aircraft and projectiles are a little higher in "sight" visibility, but projectiles are zero for radar, seismic, etc.
Thus, you can create as many radars as you like. You could create a "sight"-jammer for arbiters. To make exceptions to visibility-jamming or sight-rules, you can provide secondary, hidden visibility-types that only a few select units are visible in.
For example, for arbiters - you have a second, hidden sight-type called "neverinvisible". You define all units stealthed in "neverinvisible" except the arbiter. Then, you give all units the same detection stats for "neverinvisible" as they have for "sight", and make "neverinvisible" a visible-unit detection type. So, the arbiter cannot jam itself. Alternately, for the old "jammers/radar are easy to detect in a vague, seismic way", you could make a secondary sight-class used just for jammers/radar.
For mods where you want variable-visibility (infantry are harder to detect than tanks) you could use a visibility-multiplier in sight.
Obviously, for most cases you'd want to use a single radar-type, and keep the "detectability" of every unit equal to 1 so that radar-radiuses are constant, thus avoiding confusing the user. But in other mods, the reverse is desired. In a realism wargame, you want different units to have variable detectability without relying on fixed-detectability-radius provided by cloaking (besides, the transparency at the user-end is not necessarily a desired effect).
Hell, you could remove cloak altogether with this system. Instead, you add a new visability type called "cloak". All units have the same sight-range in "cloak" of "1", but cloaked units have varying multipliers. Thus, you could deprecate the cloak tag and roll it into this visibility system.
There are N "sight-systems". For each visibility-system, you can have detectors, cloaks, stealths, and jammers.
You provide a metadata file in the modinfo that describes each visibility system - how it appears to the user. It can be blur (seismic), dot, icon, or visible-unit. For dots/icons, you also provide jitter-values there. All of these settings can be overridden by detectors.
Each unit (and projectile) has a detectability multiplier for each sight system. For current Spring behaviour, default is 1 for all systems for all units - aircraft and projectiles are a little higher in "sight" visibility, but projectiles are zero for radar, seismic, etc.
Thus, you can create as many radars as you like. You could create a "sight"-jammer for arbiters. To make exceptions to visibility-jamming or sight-rules, you can provide secondary, hidden visibility-types that only a few select units are visible in.
For example, for arbiters - you have a second, hidden sight-type called "neverinvisible". You define all units stealthed in "neverinvisible" except the arbiter. Then, you give all units the same detection stats for "neverinvisible" as they have for "sight", and make "neverinvisible" a visible-unit detection type. So, the arbiter cannot jam itself. Alternately, for the old "jammers/radar are easy to detect in a vague, seismic way", you could make a secondary sight-class used just for jammers/radar.
For mods where you want variable-visibility (infantry are harder to detect than tanks) you could use a visibility-multiplier in sight.
Obviously, for most cases you'd want to use a single radar-type, and keep the "detectability" of every unit equal to 1 so that radar-radiuses are constant, thus avoiding confusing the user. But in other mods, the reverse is desired. In a realism wargame, you want different units to have variable detectability without relying on fixed-detectability-radius provided by cloaking (besides, the transparency at the user-end is not necessarily a desired effect).
Hell, you could remove cloak altogether with this system. Instead, you add a new visability type called "cloak". All units have the same sight-range in "cloak" of "1", but cloaked units have varying multipliers. Thus, you could deprecate the cloak tag and roll it into this visibility system.
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DandyGnome
- Posts: 61
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 06:43
Very good idea and something I would love to see implemented. However instead of having a speical tag for stealth wouldn't it be better to just have the detectability multiplier for a stealth object be 0? It would also be nice to have emitters to simulate for example real life radar jammers which spam false data though this might be luaable.