REAL war protest

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 01 Dec 2006, 17:38

Yes, if you took the time to look into it, you'd find much of Communism is "apt"!

*ignores Wolf*

Also, to elaborate:

Presumably the communist utopia will have some way of keeping that from happening, though we can see that that has not been enforced effectivly before *cough*Stalin*cough**cough*

Mao instituted a policy revolving around "cultural revolution". I realize that in the West we are taught that this cultural revolution was akin to a crackdown on civil liberties and miscreants, that led to the death of millions through mismanagement, etc etc. In reality the cultural revolution was an attempt to stop what Mao called "capitalist roaders in the Communist Party" from taking hold and becoming corrupt by their power (something the USSR never had). His attempt proved futile however, and he and other top Party members who supported this attempt were defeated by these capitalist roaders who then went on to turn China into the oppressive state we know it as today. Well, today we know it as the capitalist state, but before it "discovered" the beauty of getting rich on the world market, it was quite oppressive. Not to say that Mao was an angel. He probably mismanaged the economy and led to massive suffering.

Anyway, the beauty with communism, and with any system, is that we are able to learn from past mistakes and apply them with success in the future. Afterall, from the time it was first "invented" in Greece, it took "democracy" over 2000 years to become the dominant force in governmental systems throughout the world. Hopefully its not going to take another 2000 years for Communism to be fully established globally :S

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 01 Dec 2006, 22:52

SpikedHelmet wrote:Hopefully its not going to take another 2000 years for Communism to be fully established globally :S

It'll take longer, if at all. Well, I'm not sure what your kind of communist government would be, but I'm assuming it's based on instead of people getting stuff based on their demand, everybody getting the same food water and shelter (or if not the same then according to their need), which is a fundamentally flawed idea. (If that isn't what your vision of communism is, then ignore the rest of my post)

OK, imagine that you are an entreprenuer, or a doctor, or an engineer, or just someone who is very valuable to a society, and so very much in demand. Where would you rather live: A communist society where you get an average amount of money/power/resources, or a capitalist society where you get much more money/power/resources than everyone else? I see no reason to choose the communist society.

Now imagine that you are an uneducated, untrained, unskilled, and maybe even lazy laborer; someone who is not particularly valued by society. Where would you rather live: A communist society where you get an average amount of money/power resources, or a capitalistr society where you get much much less than anyone else? I see no reason to choose the capitalist society.

And so the end result is that even if a completely communist world would be better than the current world, it's never gonna happen. Whenever a nation becomes communist, there would be a mass emigration of people valuable to society and a mass immigration of people invaluable to society, and so the nation would collapse, and communism would continue to be considered a failed experiment.

edit: fixed the error

Candleman · Post by **Candleman** » 01 Dec 2006, 22:55

Lindir The Green wrote:Now imagine that you are an uneducated, untrained, unskilled, and maybe even lazy laborer; someone who is not particularly valued by society. Where would you rather live: A communist society where you get an average amount of money/power resources, or a capitalistr society where you get much much less than anyone else? I see no reason to choose the communist society.

I think you mean Capitalist, right there.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 01 Dec 2006, 22:56

First off, that's not what Communism is, but I couldn't help my self, so I had to read the rest of your post. And something confused me.

Now imagine that you are an uneducated, untrained, unskilled, and maybe even lazy laborer; someone who is not particularly valued by society. Where would you rather live: A communist society where you get an average amount of money/power resources, or a capitalistr society where you get much much less than anyone else? I see no reason to choose the communist society.

So you're saying that a poor person would rather choose to be poor and struggle to survive rather than have all of his needs provided? Uh.. okay. Well, I'm poor, and I'd rather live in a society where all persons are equally accountable and accounted. So there goes your entire theory. Not like you had one to begin with anyway.

However I'm going to jump a fence and assume you're trying to bring up the arguement that "when given the choice, most people would want the chance to be rich rather than no chance of being rich at all". Fortunately, not everyone feels this way, and unfortunately, the vast majority of us will never be rich, just like we will never win the lottery (but atleast we're allowed to not buy lottery tickets) or be struck by lightning. Not only that, but the richer those lucky individuals get, the poorer the unlucky majority get.

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 01 Dec 2006, 23:07

Oops, sorry, meant capitalist there.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 01 Dec 2006, 23:18

Even so,

there would be a mass emigration of people valuable to society and a mass immigration of people invaluable to society, and so the nation would collapse

Yes, just like the massive doctor shortage in Cuba has crippled their healthcare.

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 01 Dec 2006, 23:54

Code: Select all

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INTERMISSION
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...and they go on, and on, and...

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 02 Dec 2006, 00:39

stalin was the best.

Erom · Post by **Erom** » 02 Dec 2006, 02:27

SpikedHelmet wrote:Even so,
there would be a mass emigration of people valuable to society and a mass immigration of people invaluable to society, and so the nation would collapse
Yes, just like the massive doctor shortage in Cuba has crippled their healthcare.

I don't man, Cuban doctors are supposedly pretty under trained... call it American propaganda if you want, but I know the Venezuelan healthcare community has some pretty bad things to say about the Cuban system.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 02 Dec 2006, 04:18

Venezuelan healthcare "community"'s reservations revolve mainly around criticisms of appointing Cuban medical officials to high-ranking positions in Venezuela's social programs, fears that Cubans will threaten Venezuelan jobs, and accusations that the entire ordeal is a political ploy by Hugo Chavez to get Cuba to indoctrinate Venezuela's medical workforce into a Communist model. The "proof" of Cuba's system and its efficiency are in the proverbial pudding. Cuba has one of the lowest HIV/AIDS prevelance rates in the world; the highest life expectancy in Latin America as of 2000 (though not 2004); tied with lowest infant mortality rate in the Americas with Canada as of 2002; has the second highest doctor-patient ratio in the world (after Italy); etc etc.

Wolf-In-Exile · Post by **Wolf-In-Exile** » 02 Dec 2006, 10:55

Don't want to face the facts, eh?

Fine by me, i've seen enough to make an accurate judgement of you, avoiding issues when you're clearly revealed to be an idiot.

This whole thread is a grandiose scream by SpikedHelmet for "NOTICE ME!" by formenting arguments, but not having the sense to argue them well, so thereby steering it to an argument about communism.

I'll leave you to it then, time to focus on more important things.

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 02 Dec 2006, 12:28

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:stalin was the best.

He was fucking rad man

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 02 Dec 2006, 16:01

In other news, apparently my avatar, depicting Adolf Hitler eating a gunshot and inviting his followers to do the same, is "racist and/or prejudicial".

Can anyone else say rofl? I wonder if my new one will also be racist and/or prejudicial!

Oh yeah, *continues ignoring Wolf*

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:51

I understand the intended meaning. It was complained about on the grounds that it could be taken as discriminatory to German people's, as opposed to the intended target of just nazi's. Your current avatar is far more tasteful.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:52

SwiftSpear wrote:I understand the intended meaning. It was complained about on the grounds that it could be taken as discriminatory to German people's, as opposed to the intended target of just nazi's. Your current avatar is far more tasteful.

Except for the fact that it is now illegal to visit this forum in Germany.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 03 Dec 2006, 01:37

and thats a bad thing.. I think this forum should be illegal everywhere.. this would make spiked more of a rebel by posting here, so I think hed agree...

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 03 Dec 2006, 04:18

That is the most idiotic fucking thing I've ever heard. Showing images depicting Hitler in unkind situations may be construed as "Anti-German"? What the fuck is the world coming to when rational people are defending Adolf fucking Hitler? Whichever one of you fucking Germans complained about it, I hope you get your fucking head kicked in by an antifa hooligan you fucking fascist scum. And no, that isn't a racist remark. I am half German, and that is an anti-fascist remark.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 03 Dec 2006, 06:03

you are the sillyist person I know..

I feel sorry for you..

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 03 Dec 2006, 14:25

Yes, it is silly of me to struggle for the right to make fun of Hitler.

Okay, that sounds a little silly, but the fact that people are now defending Hitler on the grounds of national defensiveness sure as hell is not silly. It's tragically disturbing. I guess I won't be able to make fun of Il Duce now because it might offend Italians, or Stalin as it might offend Russians, or Kim Jong Il as it might offend North Koreans! We have entered the age of European bullshit liberalization and feeble-mindedness.

Wolf-In-Exile · Post by **Wolf-In-Exile** » 03 Dec 2006, 14:36

*ignores hypocritical idiot*

Fanger, well said.

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REAL war protest