Hoi wrote:Not believing we can do better is foolish, we can do it if we really want to. Also if you had watched the movie you would have seen that we will be forced to do this at some point, because living like we live now will not be possible anymore. The movie discusses this "dna argument" and shows how much influence the environment and society have on how a human grows up. Basically, our society at this point breeds people to be dicks and selfish. If our society would learn people to trust each other and to help each other, we would do exactly that.
yeah, environment makes us who we are, but still, we have basic instincts of being lazy and greed etc... sure we can manipulate our kids to believe stuff like helping others etc, but eventually some dick will figure out that you can manipulate people to get what you want, and then we are in this shit once again.
sure you can go to jungle and have happy lives there helping each other, as if you were one big family, but that doesnt work with 5 billion people. billions of people must die in order to create better society, isnt that what hitler tried?
Hoi wrote:Also if you had watched the movie properly you would have seen that because there is no more need for everyone to work 50h a week, we will be able to do what we can do best. Everyone gets good education, so we will all be able to innovate, research, improve, learn, create instead of do simple tasks that can be done by machines. The people who currently are at a low level of education are not there because they are stupid, they are there because society made them stupid or didn't allow them to develop.
not everyone want to innovate, or etc, not everyone are born to be geniuses. not everyone even want to go to school, some people have learning defects, some people are blind and deaf, some people are just plain retarded, some people have mental problems, such as depression that are genetic. also what would motivate people making free stuff to everyone? why wouldnt they just sit on the sofa and watch others free stuff coming from TV ?
also have you thought why people in the jungle dont have computers nor science? they dont care about such stuff... they dont need to. once human dont need to do anything extra, what he will do... he just be lazy ass and take the closest beer from the table... to make people stop being lazy, we need to motivate people to actually live their lives, but that raises question, why do we need to make people to live their lives and why cant we just let them stop existing and worrying about better societies etc? realistic place where utopia works is where everyone are dead.
also, do we need machines to improve our lives? people are perfectly happy in the jungle. i find it disturbing that we are going to build utopia which is based upon the artificial needs we created in this disgusting world. and knowing people, everyone needs the same stuff everyone else has, and there it fails, because when we want to have that stuff, we will take that stuff... have you ever observed kids playing? one kid will eventually take the toy of another kid, and make everyone crying, that is genetic, nobody taught that kid to take the toy, the kid was just being selfish and not thinking others, since they dont have the brainpower required for that yet, and some people will born with such defects that will make them unable to have empathy.
as i said... one way to make utopia to work is to kill everyone and start from clean table again, genetically engineer everyone to be clones of each other, identical. but even then, some clone will get better ideas than someone else and then the jellyboi war starts again... not to mention that one disease could kill everyone anyways.
Hoi wrote:Finally, calling something utopia is a worthless argument. You have no way to prove that the image the movie gives you is bad, but you personally don't like it or don't believe in it, so you call it utopia to make it sound ridiculous. Imagine a better world, it can't be possible! Let's not try to improve the world because it is impossible, because it is utopia! Or... not? Maybe it is possible to improve the world if we try?
as i noted above, its not going to work, unless we kill everyone.
sure you can make your own bubble somewhere, but what will guarantee others outside of the bubble will help you when a meteor suddenly broke your bubble ? or a earth quake? you have to rely on others all around the world to be able to do so... and no government is going to allow such bubbles to be built with their expenses, and everyone is going to be so jealous and trying to destroy your perfect society eventually anyways. not to mention terrorists calling you infidels etc.
it would be cool to prove utopia actually working with a computer simulated world. and i know you will end up always creating new problems when you try to fix another problem. and it will end up into something fucked up you dont want to live in, or ironically it would end up exactly where we live today.
