yes it seems to me as well that the texturing is very good and colorful, but the lines are blurry. Also i feel like the commander aircraft his slightly to large, and while this might be in proportion with the rest of the units it obstructs the view.
Other criticisms about the modeling: Some units could use better animations and idle animations.
And again, you have one of the best looking mods of spring, I think you should't look for problems in the graphic department but rather the gameplay. Also I assume that anime is always a niche and i have the feeling that rts players prefere 'realism' over cartoonic.
Alright rightfield. Read this and respond.
Moderators: MR.D, Moderators
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RightField
- Posts: 110
- Joined: 11 Nov 2004, 21:29
Well there is a reason while I hate anime over anything else in this world. Ah well. This is what you have to do for me to like it, although I doubt you will: It needs to look less like anime (more detail etc) less plastic and more like metal and first and foremost, it needs more tambourine. But then again, everything needs more tambourine.
But meh, if you aim for it looking like crap plastic toys then, whohoo, you succeded.
Have a nice day.
But meh, if you aim for it looking like crap plastic toys then, whohoo, you succeded.
Have a nice day.
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RightField
- Posts: 110
- Joined: 11 Nov 2004, 21:29
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unpossible
- Posts: 871
- Joined: 10 May 2005, 19:24
No, I just know that I'm doing the best work that I have time and energy to do, and that it's original Art, not just copywork. One has to be satisfied with that, I think, and ignore people who gripe, so long as their objections are aesthetic and not functional.I never see you get pissed about peoples comments. I think as far as modeling goes you have elephant hide
I could sacrifice other areas of my life (among other things, I have a Real Job, and I'm a dad), and do more modding, and sometimes when I feel the need to do some crunch on a mod, I will have to push myself really hard. But, in times like this, when my job is keeping me very busy, I only have a few hours per week to spare for any modding (including being here and typing this, frankly), so I have to spend my time on small things, and be satisfied.
If I was getting paid to model/skin for a living, or really thought that was my life-goal, I'd probably concentrate on "video game Realism". Not because I prefer it, but because game companies overwhelmingly want to see people master it. I would also learn more about using box-modeling techniques, steal... erm, borrow... no, steal a copy of Maya or Max that wasn't ancient, and then master Zbrush, so that I could make nice bump and normal maps, like the pros are doing.
I don't really like video games' weak Realism- I prefer a softer, more painterly approach to skinning, and I don't really like how most "sci-fi" video games are almost all copying from the artbooks of exactly three movies:
Star Wars
Mad Max
Ghost in the Shell
Ok, ok the above is a bit hyperbolic
But I think that most people would agree that it's only been pretty recently that art for games, especially sci-fi titles, has been expanding beyond these distinct styles. I've been pretty happy, actually, with how now that the technology is finally arriving to allow a lot more artistic freedom, art for games seems to be opening in new directions- and as the art budgets for big titles get bigger and bigger, we're seeing a more movie-like polish on the materials. I mean, who would've imagined Oblivion just a few years ago? I don't really care for it as a game design (a topic way, way off of this one, which I will not bore you with) but as an artistic achievement, it is pretty much second to nothing right now- an almost complete world, stacked with detail almost beyond comprehension... yet, built by people, for people, in the service of a game design.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Hmmm, I think that the uppermost ship definitely looks cool, but the lower one less so.
You've probably got a lot more experience with texturing then I do, but I still have a few ways I think those textures could be improved I think. Importantly, though, it comes down to my personal preference in design. I also know very little about Gundam itself, and am judging it entirely from that point of view.
1) George Lucas in Star Wars pioneered the idea of the "used future". Prior to that, (most) futuristic sci-fi worlds were all very clean-cut and sparkly. Lucas made his stuff look like it had been around for years, and lived in. So, while it may have been thousands of years into the future (or long, long ago) their cool tech looked just as beat up as our tech does today. For me, this really sells designs. Make your stuff look scarred, beaten, like it's been used for years, and seen many war years.
2) Put some basic shading and highlights in. Spring does it, but if you look at Vassago's work, it really sells it (I need to do this myself).
3) Detail. Your designs look good, but they also look simple. This works nicely where the model is complicated, like the top one in the image you provided, but not so well when the model is simple, and you need the texture to fill the gaps. So, put little panels, electrical equipment, armour sheets, rivets, etc. You don't need to go crazy overboard, but it does make the model, in my opinion.
You've probably got a lot more experience with texturing then I do, but I still have a few ways I think those textures could be improved I think. Importantly, though, it comes down to my personal preference in design. I also know very little about Gundam itself, and am judging it entirely from that point of view.
1) George Lucas in Star Wars pioneered the idea of the "used future". Prior to that, (most) futuristic sci-fi worlds were all very clean-cut and sparkly. Lucas made his stuff look like it had been around for years, and lived in. So, while it may have been thousands of years into the future (or long, long ago) their cool tech looked just as beat up as our tech does today. For me, this really sells designs. Make your stuff look scarred, beaten, like it's been used for years, and seen many war years.
2) Put some basic shading and highlights in. Spring does it, but if you look at Vassago's work, it really sells it (I need to do this myself).
3) Detail. Your designs look good, but they also look simple. This works nicely where the model is complicated, like the top one in the image you provided, but not so well when the model is simple, and you need the texture to fill the gaps. So, put little panels, electrical equipment, armour sheets, rivets, etc. You don't need to go crazy overboard, but it does make the model, in my opinion.
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Johns_Volition
- Posts: 134
- Joined: 05 Jul 2006, 21:17
while I absolutly agree with you warlord, I'm sure you forget one little detail. The object in question was nanolathed (or however) created just moments before it gets used and destroyed. I doubt it has the time to get dirty and scrached.
But in the other hand, I suppose that does not matter. Am. yeah.
Hm
But in the other hand, I suppose that does not matter. Am. yeah.
Hm
warlord:
1) they have not seen many years, most of them are straight off of the assembly line and all panel lines etc are only there where there are hatches fore maintenence. If you look in game you will see it has a slight reflection to it so it has that new car shine :). Other then the hatches they are solid paint. Sorry, I cannot do that it goes against the art of the anime. This is covered more in 3. Note that I DID NOT put reflections in my panel lines.
2)
like this?
3) Panels are covered in part one but also for the most part the mechs are coated in shiny new paint. When I get unit limits the characters will have exposed panels dirty mechs and worn paint(where apropriate)
1) they have not seen many years, most of them are straight off of the assembly line and all panel lines etc are only there where there are hatches fore maintenence. If you look in game you will see it has a slight reflection to it so it has that new car shine :). Other then the hatches they are solid paint. Sorry, I cannot do that it goes against the art of the anime. This is covered more in 3. Note that I DID NOT put reflections in my panel lines.
2)
like this?
3) Panels are covered in part one but also for the most part the mechs are coated in shiny new paint. When I get unit limits the characters will have exposed panels dirty mechs and worn paint(where apropriate)
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
(difficult to tell from the UV, could you provide an ingame, or UPspring screenie?)
I'm not at all bothered by the fact that you've just built a bunch of units that look used and battered even though you've just built it. If you can deal with the fact that you are building warmachines on the same battlefield as you intend to be fighting on, you can deal with that, too.
I think it adds significantly to immersion.
Even for things that have just come off an assembly line, you can make them look grungy. Look at Star Wars' Battle Droids. They look modulated, ad-hoc and thrown together. They look like they are meant to be pumped out in large numbers, and finishes don't matter at all. The Homeworld ship designs also have this sort of feel to them. I think it makes the game infinitely more immersive when your units actually look battle-hardened, and like they are real machines of war, rather then pristine sports-car designs. War is gritty, not pretty, and I think it should be designed as such.
To be honest, if you look at most military things that run off production lines, they don't always look bright and sparkly. They'll often look grungy, with odd-coloured materials, etc, because when you're in a war, a plate of armour reflects a bullet the same whether it is coloured the same as the rest of the design or not.
But, if that's the anime motif (or atleast, the Gundam motif - I know Miyazaki's steampunk designs are totally sold by their grunginess), and you want to stick with that, then go with it.
I still think you could do with more detail on the model. You don't need to paint over rivets, or electronic equipment/wiring. Remember also that what you've been watching have been cartoons, while you're operating in a quasi-realistic environment (spring/3D models, etc), so the cartoon feel may not work as well. You may need to fill the gaps between "cartoon representation" and "real world" representation. Unless you particularly want to stick with the design feel of a cartoon.
I'm not at all bothered by the fact that you've just built a bunch of units that look used and battered even though you've just built it. If you can deal with the fact that you are building warmachines on the same battlefield as you intend to be fighting on, you can deal with that, too.
I think it adds significantly to immersion.
Even for things that have just come off an assembly line, you can make them look grungy. Look at Star Wars' Battle Droids. They look modulated, ad-hoc and thrown together. They look like they are meant to be pumped out in large numbers, and finishes don't matter at all. The Homeworld ship designs also have this sort of feel to them. I think it makes the game infinitely more immersive when your units actually look battle-hardened, and like they are real machines of war, rather then pristine sports-car designs. War is gritty, not pretty, and I think it should be designed as such.
To be honest, if you look at most military things that run off production lines, they don't always look bright and sparkly. They'll often look grungy, with odd-coloured materials, etc, because when you're in a war, a plate of armour reflects a bullet the same whether it is coloured the same as the rest of the design or not.
But, if that's the anime motif (or atleast, the Gundam motif - I know Miyazaki's steampunk designs are totally sold by their grunginess), and you want to stick with that, then go with it.
I still think you could do with more detail on the model. You don't need to paint over rivets, or electronic equipment/wiring. Remember also that what you've been watching have been cartoons, while you're operating in a quasi-realistic environment (spring/3D models, etc), so the cartoon feel may not work as well. You may need to fill the gaps between "cartoon representation" and "real world" representation. Unless you particularly want to stick with the design feel of a cartoon.
You keep asking for upspring shots, but upspring is awful for a preview.Warlord Zsinj wrote:(difficult to tell from the UV, could you provide an ingame, or UPspring screenie?)
On the begining of the thread I posted a link to the current public test
version please look at that in game. There also is an ingame screen in
the first post, you could have at least looked at it :\.
Miyazaki sells on the fact that disney backs him.Warlord Zsinj wrote:But, if that's the anime motif (or atleast, the Gundam motif - I know Miyazaki's steampunk designs are totally sold by their grunginess), and you want to stick with that, then go with it.
If you want to see good grimey designs go with Masamune Shiro.
However, I am more for the clean look that shoji kawamori has.
in gundam when a mech IS transported it is done so as cleanly as
possible and there are never upainted panels. Everything is alway done
to the cleanest level possible.
why? zoomedWarlord Zsinj wrote:I still think
you could do with more detail on the model.
out you do not see them. the aircraft has 300+polies and I do not
see why I would want to add more. The whitebase is well beyond 2,500.
I do add in some non-cartoon looks. see all that nice soft shading... yeah.Warlord Zsinj wrote: You don't need to paint over rivets, or electronic equipment/wiring. Remember also that what you've been watching have been cartoons, while you're operating in a quasi-realistic environment (spring/3D models, etc)
Otherwise I could just do some flat shading and call it a day. I also have
tons of japanese model images that I have collected over the years. I am
apealing to that crowd.
In gundam, a beat up mech has large holes in it's armor... see this pic:
That does not require making it look like it flew through septic off shot.Warlord Zsinj wrote: so the cartoon feel may not work as well. You may need to fill the gaps between "cartoon representation" and "real world" representation.
you have not bothered to look at it in game. Untill then. you cannot really say, can you?Warlord Zsinj wrote: Unless you particularly want to stick with the design feel of a cartoon.
Try the mod at least do me that honor. However, I do not think you
understand or will understand the anime style of art. It requires very
clean lines and shaddow(if you do soft shaddow at all). Most of the time
it uses hard shaddows etc. The point is that the model will not be covered
with many random grey panels, tubes, dirt and scratches. The anime
always portrays the transport of mechs with very clean circumstances
but if you actually played the mod you would see there is plenty of
grime...
From the spring screenshots page btw.
OMG! DIRT The hover truck by it's nature MUST be dirty.
I just use my grime on things that need it.
Well, first thing. you know I find your texturing awesom smoth
There is little to adress on the models. You could spend more time adding details to it. Or you wish to let it efficient (in both poli count and abstraction).
The texture, well you've guessed it yourself. It could use some sort of dirt. Both the white base and the fighter are like Zoombie once said: spit clean.
There is little to adress on the models. You could spend more time adding details to it. Or you wish to let it efficient (in both poli count and abstraction).
The texture, well you've guessed it yourself. It could use some sort of dirt. Both the white base and the fighter are like Zoombie once said: spit clean.
