Absolute Annihilation 2.11
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- Drone_Fragger
- Posts: 1341
- Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 15:49
Egarwaen wrote: Is there some way around this I'm missing?
How about that almost all artillery works the same way, except they don't counter heavy tanks?
Look, the units it's nothing wrong with, but with the right support, it will, offcourse, PWN! it's what it's made for!
How to counter snipers that are supported by a balanced support?
Try a balanced Army. How about some cannon fodder, some air units, some artillery, and some tanks? use the fodder to cause confusion and keep the defences busy, artillery the defences (esplcaly air), roll on the heavy tanks to kill more of the defence while soaking up so much damage they can and use air power to kill the pesky snipers.
Yeah I used to hate snipers as I play as Core a lot, but really, they cost a lot and are easily pwned by almost everything if they're not supported. I never realised that they have to uncloak to fire and I was like "this is so lame :'-(". Once I knew that they have to uncloak to fire, you can start to look for the buggers and kill them all, mua ha ha etc.
'Slipping them back' behind your lines if they get attacked isnt as easy as is being made out - they move damn slowly. Also, their cloaking cost is reasonable, so killing you enemy's economy a bit will usually uncloak them, etc etc.
This whole argument is equivalent to saying mobile bertha trucks / most artillery / long range anything are uncounterable if they are well supported - sure, they're a pain in the ass, but they're expensive, slow and fragile.
I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of t1 bombers would kill them easily for less cost, even if you lose the bombers in the process. As for spotting them, use classic scout units, invisible spy bots, perimeter cameras etc etc etc.
I vote that they're balanced fine as it is now, if anything does need doing to them then I'd suggest just editing their cost, their actual mechanic is fine.
'Slipping them back' behind your lines if they get attacked isnt as easy as is being made out - they move damn slowly. Also, their cloaking cost is reasonable, so killing you enemy's economy a bit will usually uncloak them, etc etc.
This whole argument is equivalent to saying mobile bertha trucks / most artillery / long range anything are uncounterable if they are well supported - sure, they're a pain in the ass, but they're expensive, slow and fragile.
I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of t1 bombers would kill them easily for less cost, even if you lose the bombers in the process. As for spotting them, use classic scout units, invisible spy bots, perimeter cameras etc etc etc.
I vote that they're balanced fine as it is now, if anything does need doing to them then I'd suggest just editing their cost, their actual mechanic is fine.
The only strange thing is that the shooters are stealthed...why stealth AND cloaking?
I can see why the spy kbots get both, but then they don't have any weapons!
I think maybe shooters should just be cloaking, and not stealth.
It would mean that you'd have to jam them or remove the enemy's radar coverage for them to be impossible to find like they are now...come to think of it, that might make juno's a bit more useful on both sides of the equation...
I can see why the spy kbots get both, but then they don't have any weapons!
I think maybe shooters should just be cloaking, and not stealth.
It would mean that you'd have to jam them or remove the enemy's radar coverage for them to be impossible to find like they are now...come to think of it, that might make juno's a bit more useful on both sides of the equation...

nah snipers are FINE ok? ffs what are we supposed to do? get 100 pros to say THEY ARE BALANCED
they are fairly slow
they take a large chunk of time to reload
they uncloak to fire and are vulnerable for a few seconds then
they are innacurrate vs radar blips so you need scouts
if they have enough army to stop you attacking the snipers with land and air then flank him!!!
they are fairly slow
they take a large chunk of time to reload
they uncloak to fire and are vulnerable for a few seconds then
they are innacurrate vs radar blips so you need scouts
you need to check out how much support they have and go for a land/air/both attack to take em out. use T1 tanks and T2 tanks (or maybe zippers)This means you need heavy assault units, which snipers counter.
QFTYou keep using snipers "with support!" as a magic bullet against any counter we throw out. Look, if someone manages to pull of,
A) a couple of snipers AND
B) scouts AND
C) enough AA cover that air attack won't work AND
D) enough ground support that they are protected anti-swarm AND
E) STILL having enough resources to match you in a L2 tank war
then they deserve to win. Look, they can't protect the snipers against everything. So they built some anti-swarm support and some AA support. That means you can out-build them with heavy land units. Unless you are losing economically, they have to counter multiple threats, so their resources are spread thinner.
if they have enough army to stop you attacking the snipers with land and air then flank him!!!
they are pretty sucky however the main bonus is in swarms they can fire over each over (still, not that useful on a flat map)
if you use alot of em they'll hurt eachother more than the goliaths
New additions:
Fatboy wreackage value increased
Sniper mincloakdistance set to 96, noexplode bug fixed
Blade HP reduced 50
Fatboy apparently has a very low metal worth on its wreck, so that's a bug. Sniper reload time increase is pretty much inconsequential, but I'm also going to try to fix its strange noexplode behavior - which is a Spring bug I'll have to work around. Its mincloakdistance increase will allow you you find it more easily by using large numbers of low-value units or aircraft to locate it.
The Blade hp decrease is insignificant. I'm not sure on the numbers, but 50 less HP won't hurt it much but will maybe make it a little more counterable.
Fatboy wreackage value increased
Sniper mincloakdistance set to 96, noexplode bug fixed
Blade HP reduced 50
Fatboy apparently has a very low metal worth on its wreck, so that's a bug. Sniper reload time increase is pretty much inconsequential, but I'm also going to try to fix its strange noexplode behavior - which is a Spring bug I'll have to work around. Its mincloakdistance increase will allow you you find it more easily by using large numbers of low-value units or aircraft to locate it.
The Blade hp decrease is insignificant. I'm not sure on the numbers, but 50 less HP won't hurt it much but will maybe make it a little more counterable.
Last edited by Caydr on 03 Jul 2006, 22:18, edited 2 times in total.
gah, dont change the reload time snipes are fine, they bloody kill each other too which no one has mentioned yet, the amount of snipers ive lost to ff is ridiccy, they need constant micro to be effective, theyre so fragile, so slow, they bunch up and kill each other, etc etc
If someone using them behind defence just flank the bugger, or nail him with brawlers,
I also find they hurt my expansion as they cost so much e to fire ( not an issue late game obviuosly)
If someone using them behind defence just flank the bugger, or nail him with brawlers,
I also find they hurt my expansion as they cost so much e to fire ( not an issue late game obviuosly)
Uh. Snipers don't have a radar blob. Unless I'm missing something. And that still doesn't provide a counter for a Core player that builds KBots.BigSteve wrote:rocket tanks they can home in on the snipers radar blob, 1 hit kill
I'm also amused that the solution to 2-3 units tearing a massive hole in your defences and any mobile units you try to fill the gap with is "Oh, build a massive mixed L2 army and go attack somewhere else". Artillery's easier to deal with because you can at least see the damn stuff on radar or with a quick fly-over, and it doesn't rip up swarms if the units ever happen to start to line up.
What exactly is bugged with the Sniper's weapon?
Last edited by Egarwaen on 03 Jul 2006, 23:52, edited 1 time in total.
2-3 units are tearing your defences? Well snipers are slow and can't be killed by swarms... oh they are stupported with tanks and antiswarm? well just bring in some Air... oh they have AA cover?Egarwaen wrote: Uh. Snipers don't have a radar blob.
I'm also amused that the solution to 2-3 units tearing a massive hole in your defences and any mobile units you try to fill the gap with is "Oh, build a massive mixed army and go attack somewhere else".
What exactly is bugged with the Sniper's weapon?
Suddenly it's not longer 2-3 units tearing a hole in your defences is it?
Have you ever tried to swarm them? If your units ever line up, they die. And as I said, they don't need to be supported with shit, unit-wise. They just need a pair of HLTs to pull back past. The snipers will kill any big units you send after them, the HLTs will kill anything smaller. And as has been pointed out before, you can prevent gunships from being effective with a tiny investment in L1 AA.Kixxe wrote:2-3 units are tearing your defences? Well snipers are slow and can't be killed by swarms... oh they are stupported with tanks and antiswarm? well just bring in some Air... oh they have AA cover?
Suddenly it's not longer 2-3 units tearing a hole in your defences is it?
So no, strictly speaking, it's not. It's 2-3 units protected by my enemy's defensive line, which I do not, as a Core player, have way to counter.
Again, the Snipers are probably fine, but all of Core's possible answers don't work.
swarm em with pyros, use a scuttle, if you cant swarm em because theyre being defended get l2 air or go round him. So many players seem to focus only on the front line.
Or if you want to attack his lines just chuck some ak's or pewewes in as cannon fodder and follow up, 2 hlts are nothing really, you can take them down with like 12 rockos, even less prob
Anyway im sure last time I played snipers had a radar blip can anyone confirm this?
maybe they dont when theyre cloaked but thatd be fair enough, it costs a shit load to cloak and fire snipers.
the rocket will still home if you get los to the sniper, use aks and/ or peepers then fire away, ive done it a few times when ive played core.
Or if you want to attack his lines just chuck some ak's or pewewes in as cannon fodder and follow up, 2 hlts are nothing really, you can take them down with like 12 rockos, even less prob
Anyway im sure last time I played snipers had a radar blip can anyone confirm this?
maybe they dont when theyre cloaked but thatd be fair enough, it costs a shit load to cloak and fire snipers.
the rocket will still home if you get los to the sniper, use aks and/ or peepers then fire away, ive done it a few times when ive played core.
Last edited by BigSteve on 04 Jul 2006, 00:07, edited 3 times in total.
Hmm
My solution to the Sniper problem: AKs. Lots of AKs. Really, any Core player should keep 20 of the damn things handy at all times anyhow - they're just too useful otherwise. Just send out a search party to find the offending bugger. "but the sniper is supported!!?" - well then your defensive artillery just blew the support away. And yes, the snipers will kill most of those AKs, but the AKs aren't to kill teh sniper, they're just to distract and discover it while you get something to kill it. After all, it's better the sniper is blowing away your AKs than something important.
Now, for some random requests: Bring back the Core Commando. Core's kbots are too much "vehicle lite" - the Commando would add some fun flavour. To make it different from the Sharpshooter, make it into a close combat cloaked unit - think like the Ilwrath from Star Control II - a basically a cloakable Zeus. Just load it out with rockets. I mean, the Core only has _one_ fast-attack L2 kbot, the Pyro. The arm has a laundry list of them. I realize core is the "slow, sluggish" side, but you already disarmed the Freaker, why not give them back the Commando?
Oh, and now a completely random requests: make the L2 artillery tanks low-trajectory. I miss being able to use them in unit-to-unit combat like in OTA. After all, you've already got the Vlaunch tanks for high-trajectory combat, and Core has their big expensive Tremor too, so making the arty tanks low-trajectory would add some flavour. That, and I really miss the overpowered OTA mortys, and morty-style tanks would be a nice substitute.
Now, for some random requests: Bring back the Core Commando. Core's kbots are too much "vehicle lite" - the Commando would add some fun flavour. To make it different from the Sharpshooter, make it into a close combat cloaked unit - think like the Ilwrath from Star Control II - a basically a cloakable Zeus. Just load it out with rockets. I mean, the Core only has _one_ fast-attack L2 kbot, the Pyro. The arm has a laundry list of them. I realize core is the "slow, sluggish" side, but you already disarmed the Freaker, why not give them back the Commando?
Oh, and now a completely random requests: make the L2 artillery tanks low-trajectory. I miss being able to use them in unit-to-unit combat like in OTA. After all, you've already got the Vlaunch tanks for high-trajectory combat, and Core has their big expensive Tremor too, so making the arty tanks low-trajectory would add some flavour. That, and I really miss the overpowered OTA mortys, and morty-style tanks would be a nice substitute.