Proposal:A Day without Speedmetal.
Moderator: Moderators
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clericvash
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 01:05
Let me explain on behalf of everyone who "hates speedmetal".... I think I can explain the reasons.
First, it requires no skill at all to play. This means that people can play it indefinitely and get good at playing that map and that map only. They have no clue how to play the actual game, and thus, when they get tired of the endless repetition, they stop playing altogether - it's too hard to play the game without infinite resources.
Second, those players who play speedmetal believe that the game should be balanced around their only experience with Spring - speedmetal. This leads modders, such as myself, to be forced to make compromises in the name of pleasing the greater majority. This sends balance on REAL maps off-kilter and has to be fixed eventually.
Third, it gives Spring a bad name. Spring is the laughingstock of many OTA players because our majority are not only newbies, but their only skill at a map that no serious player would ever touch.
Fourth, it gives new players the wrong impression of the game. If you search "free RTS" and spring happens to pop up, you say, wow, pretty graphics, based on a legendary game's mechanics, open-source to boot. Even has a built-in matchmaking system. Then they log in, to find that the only games open are Speedmetal. Oh, wow, I guess this must be the definitive map. They play it once, and beat a hasty retreat back to Starcraft.
Fifth, it is wasted painstaking work on the part of modders. We work hard to make the game fun for people playing on real maps, only to see our work go to waste. Why bother balancing anything? Why not just set everything at 10 metal, 10 energy, 10 buildtime. Instant krogoths? Sure, why not. What's the difference between that and speedmetal. (if anyone does the mentioned modification to AA, I'll blow my brains out and haunt you good for the rest of your days)
Sixth, it drives away serious players. You log in to TASClient and see only speedmetal games open, you might as well just try again in an hour. But you'll find the same thing then too, probably.
Someone compared Speedmetal to a sandbox mode, sort of like the famous Garry's Mod for HL2. There's a difference. I've never played it personally, but from what I've been told, Garry's mod for HL2 has the potential to create new scenarios for combat and fun and all that good stuff. Speedmetal? It kills skill; nay, it creates anti-skill. All you learn is how to click. It should be relabeled, "clicking tutor for the infirm".
I'm not trying to dictate what's "right" and "wrong" in the Spring community. I'm trying to protect it from a malignant element that has only negative effects. Speedmetal is not infinitely fun - at some point, doing the same thing over and over again gets old. And then, players have to either start from scratch on a game that is now a hundred times more difficult and requires use of the brain, or just go back to whatever they were playing before - ie, other lesser RTSs, or whatever.
First, it requires no skill at all to play. This means that people can play it indefinitely and get good at playing that map and that map only. They have no clue how to play the actual game, and thus, when they get tired of the endless repetition, they stop playing altogether - it's too hard to play the game without infinite resources.
Second, those players who play speedmetal believe that the game should be balanced around their only experience with Spring - speedmetal. This leads modders, such as myself, to be forced to make compromises in the name of pleasing the greater majority. This sends balance on REAL maps off-kilter and has to be fixed eventually.
Third, it gives Spring a bad name. Spring is the laughingstock of many OTA players because our majority are not only newbies, but their only skill at a map that no serious player would ever touch.
Fourth, it gives new players the wrong impression of the game. If you search "free RTS" and spring happens to pop up, you say, wow, pretty graphics, based on a legendary game's mechanics, open-source to boot. Even has a built-in matchmaking system. Then they log in, to find that the only games open are Speedmetal. Oh, wow, I guess this must be the definitive map. They play it once, and beat a hasty retreat back to Starcraft.
Fifth, it is wasted painstaking work on the part of modders. We work hard to make the game fun for people playing on real maps, only to see our work go to waste. Why bother balancing anything? Why not just set everything at 10 metal, 10 energy, 10 buildtime. Instant krogoths? Sure, why not. What's the difference between that and speedmetal. (if anyone does the mentioned modification to AA, I'll blow my brains out and haunt you good for the rest of your days)
Sixth, it drives away serious players. You log in to TASClient and see only speedmetal games open, you might as well just try again in an hour. But you'll find the same thing then too, probably.
Someone compared Speedmetal to a sandbox mode, sort of like the famous Garry's Mod for HL2. There's a difference. I've never played it personally, but from what I've been told, Garry's mod for HL2 has the potential to create new scenarios for combat and fun and all that good stuff. Speedmetal? It kills skill; nay, it creates anti-skill. All you learn is how to click. It should be relabeled, "clicking tutor for the infirm".
I'm not trying to dictate what's "right" and "wrong" in the Spring community. I'm trying to protect it from a malignant element that has only negative effects. Speedmetal is not infinitely fun - at some point, doing the same thing over and over again gets old. And then, players have to either start from scratch on a game that is now a hundred times more difficult and requires use of the brain, or just go back to whatever they were playing before - ie, other lesser RTSs, or whatever.
lolzit's too hard to play the game without infinite resources.
you mean with relatively abundant resources (20 M / mex ish, 40 E/ Wingen ish)
ALL spring mods have by definition infinite resources (so far!)
well if modders ignored the average noobs and beta tested changes...Second, those players who play speedmetal believe that the game should be balanced around their only experience with Spring - speedmetal. This leads modders, such as myself, to be forced to make compromises in the name of pleasing the greater majority. This sends balance on REAL maps off-kilter and has to be fixed eventually.
pokes him towards absolutely excessive AA, its like trying to wean coke users off the drugs using bicycle pumps and lots of ballons. SM is for (~90%) noobs and they wouldn't change it for the world.
Fifth, it is wasted painstaking work on the part of modders. We work hard to make the game fun for people playing on real maps, only to see our work go to waste. Why bother balancing anything? Why not just set everything at 10 metal, 10 energy, 10 buildtime. Instant krogoths? Sure, why not. What's the difference between that and speedmetal. (if anyone does the mentioned modification to AA, I'll blow my brains out and haunt you good for the rest of your days)
Anyone who plays SM exclusively is a noob
SM is just a different way of playing, it still involves skill if good players play it, just COMPLETELY different from the average game thats all.
I'm not trying to dictate what's "right" and "wrong" in the Spring community. I'm trying to protect it from a malignant element that has only negative effects. Speedmetal is not infinitely fun - at some point, doing the same thing over and over again gets old. And then, players have to either start from scratch on a game that is now a hundred times more difficult and requires use of the brain, or just go back to whatever they were playing before - ie, other lesser RTSs, or whatever.
And the 'skill' doesn't scale to other maps
I'm not saying SM players are pros and im not defending the idiot who made it, but let the junkies have their fix. Or alternatively abuse your POWWWAAAA as s admin on FU and PURGE THE INFIDELS. I might if given teh powaz!
We need some sort of Map Of The Week thing. If there was some sort of reward for playing it.. you'll have to have some sort of positive incentive to play something other than Speedmetal. Trying to ban it or something won't work.
I don't think Speedmetal is THAT prevalent anyway. There are about 25 games in the lobby right now. 7 are Speedmetal (or varients), thats not THAT many.
I think the map will go out of vogue eventually. Look at Altored Divide. About half of the games a few months ago were 4vs4s on that map. Now it's not nearly as popular.
If you went on Mplayer in the late 90's nearly everybody played 10k 10k Metal Heck. And people got very good at it. I loved playing MH. But a few years later nobody was playing it.
I'd be interested to see people make some other Speed Metal varients. The one with water was a definite improvement. How about another with a wider ramp. You could wean the noobs off of it by introducing similar maps (with less defensive play).
I don't think Speedmetal is THAT prevalent anyway. There are about 25 games in the lobby right now. 7 are Speedmetal (or varients), thats not THAT many.
I think the map will go out of vogue eventually. Look at Altored Divide. About half of the games a few months ago were 4vs4s on that map. Now it's not nearly as popular.
If you went on Mplayer in the late 90's nearly everybody played 10k 10k Metal Heck. And people got very good at it. I loved playing MH. But a few years later nobody was playing it.
I'd be interested to see people make some other Speed Metal varients. The one with water was a definite improvement. How about another with a wider ramp. You could wean the noobs off of it by introducing similar maps (with less defensive play).
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Now THIS program I'd support. I don't see what we could offer really thoughMolloy wrote:We need some sort of Map Of The Week thing. If there was some sort of reward for playing it.. you'll have to have some sort of positive incentive to play something other than Speedmetal. Trying to ban it or something won't work.
I don't think Speedmetal is THAT prevalent anyway. There are about 25 games in the lobby right now. 7 are Speedmetal (or varients), thats not THAT many.
I think the map will go out of vogue eventually. Look at Altored Divide. About half of the games a few months ago were 4vs4s on that map. Now it's not nearly as popular.
If you went on Mplayer in the late 90's nearly everybody played 10k 10k Metal Heck. And people got very good at it. I loved playing MH. But a few years later nobody was playing it.
I'd be interested to see people make some other Speed Metal varients. The one with water was a definite improvement. How about another with a wider ramp. You could wean the noobs off of it by introducing similar maps (with less defensive play).
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esteroth12
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 18 May 2006, 21:19
meh... make a poll, and for 1 week anyone may offer a map for the next week. the next week, you have a poll. whichever map gts the most votes is MOTW. then, while voting, people may also offer maps to be voted on the week after that. when a map wins, it may not be MOTW for a month... confusing, i know... also, it wouldn't be enforced at all, except by players... (maybe its a "map of the day" thing, where you boycott other maps)
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Theotherguy
- Posts: 79
- Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 02:01
How about you cannot rank up after playing speedmetal, and playing it too much makes your rank go DOWN. Now that would deter people from playing it 
In all seriousness though, the best solution is simply to start more servers with more varied maps. If you see a speedmetal game, don't join it, instead start your own server on a better map.
In all seriousness though, the best solution is simply to start more servers with more varied maps. If you see a speedmetal game, don't join it, instead start your own server on a better map.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
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clericvash
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 01:05
Yet again i am agreeing with Swift on this one, we seem to share the same thought Swift :)SwiftSpear wrote:Now THIS program I'd support. I don't see what we could offer really thoughMolloy wrote:We need some sort of Map Of The Week thing. If there was some sort of reward for playing it.. you'll have to have some sort of positive incentive to play something other than Speedmetal. Trying to ban it or something won't work.
I don't think Speedmetal is THAT prevalent anyway. There are about 25 games in the lobby right now. 7 are Speedmetal (or varients), thats not THAT many.
I think the map will go out of vogue eventually. Look at Altored Divide. About half of the games a few months ago were 4vs4s on that map. Now it's not nearly as popular.
If you went on Mplayer in the late 90's nearly everybody played 10k 10k Metal Heck. And people got very good at it. I loved playing MH. But a few years later nobody was playing it.
I'd be interested to see people make some other Speed Metal varients. The one with water was a definite improvement. How about another with a wider ramp. You could wean the noobs off of it by introducing similar maps (with less defensive play).
+1 to what that guy said for sure.
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Fat Zombie
- Posts: 61
- Joined: 31 May 2006, 19:16
Hmmm.
I've never played Speedmetal. The closest i've come to it, I reckon, is that map, Metalheck. I quite enjoy it, despite it's small size. Although it doesn't have the same tactical depth as most maps, it can be quite fun to play in small doses. And of course, the small size means it's quite hard to defend stuff, but it also means it's easier to attack the enemy. (Although i've only ever played it with bots, because my internet connection can be quite tempermental at best)
Anyway, I do agree with the people that say that banning a certain map would be a bit harsh. Hey, if these people want to let their skills stagnate, let 'em. It won't prevent you having your own fun with your own servers.
I also like the idea of modifying speedmetal maps to require more strategy, ie. differing levels of metal, to produce fights for certain areas. Don't just ban it; then you'll get lots of angry Speedmetallers entering your servers, and acting childishly.
And finally, i'd like to say that I do prefer maps that require strategy. Unfortunately, I'm not that good at strategy; I prefer to use massed attacks and rushes, as I don't feel I can mentally handle multi-faceted attacks. (It's too hectic for me)
I've never played Speedmetal. The closest i've come to it, I reckon, is that map, Metalheck. I quite enjoy it, despite it's small size. Although it doesn't have the same tactical depth as most maps, it can be quite fun to play in small doses. And of course, the small size means it's quite hard to defend stuff, but it also means it's easier to attack the enemy. (Although i've only ever played it with bots, because my internet connection can be quite tempermental at best)
Anyway, I do agree with the people that say that banning a certain map would be a bit harsh. Hey, if these people want to let their skills stagnate, let 'em. It won't prevent you having your own fun with your own servers.
I also like the idea of modifying speedmetal maps to require more strategy, ie. differing levels of metal, to produce fights for certain areas. Don't just ban it; then you'll get lots of angry Speedmetallers entering your servers, and acting childishly.
And finally, i'd like to say that I do prefer maps that require strategy. Unfortunately, I'm not that good at strategy; I prefer to use massed attacks and rushes, as I don't feel I can mentally handle multi-faceted attacks.
(It's too hectic for me)
Metal Heck trades one aspect for an other. You won't have to seek metal patches, but the balance is more important then on other maps. But on other metal maps, recourses are so less of concern that it totally remove that aspect of the game.
Removing a map is indeed a hars move. Making a 'map of the day' could be a more subtle solution of getting newbies to play other maps.
Removing a map is indeed a hars move. Making a 'map of the day' could be a more subtle solution of getting newbies to play other maps.
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hollowsoul
- Posts: 665
- Joined: 06 Jun 2006, 19:49