Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Jun 2006, 19:11

Cheesecan wrote:Epochs could upon reaching shore transform into krogoths.

*drool*

I demand its added, NOW.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 29 Jun 2006, 19:21

Kixxe wrote:
BigSteve wrote:"I am also against lvl2 AA bots, it might render air less usefull and promote kbotlab even more. (vehicles are sooo rarely seen :)"

I totally agree, lev2 aa kbots are totally unecessary, 10 jethros mixed with your attackers works wonders, on most maps you can put a LR missile tower near your frontlines to help cover your attacking forces, this plus a good chunk of jethros makes it very difficult for brawlers or bombers to intercept attacking forces

err. how about no?

Jethros as level 2 air defence is not the best of ideas... Agsint level 1, sure but level 2? nah uh.

Besides, that would be what's called a "bandaid solution". Instead of making vechiles attractive because their acully GOOD at something (eg they should be higer damage/hp per cost vs K-bots but slower and clumpsier, so that k-bots are built as support or on hilly maps...) we say that "Oh hey, if you want level 2 mobile AA, you gotta build an vechile factory! Then everyone will build one and use the "useless" units to!"

You obviosly havent tried it Kixxe, because if you had youd realise it works, ok so maybe 15 instead of 10 but either way that many jethros mixed in with other units are a nightmare to pick off with brawlers, not so much for bombers flakkers or l2 aa bots wont stop a few bombers dropping at least 2 payloads on you.
and dont forget you can cover your attackers with LR missiles ^^ and/or fighters

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 29 Jun 2006, 19:24

why would u want to make lvl3 cheaper? I use them now as soon as i can get them. Bantha is one mean mech to start with and its well worth it.

I hope cheapre mechs wont mean lvl3 rush again and no lvl2 usage...

old saying: Dont fix it if it aint broken!

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 29 Jun 2006, 19:47

BigSteve wrote:You obviosly havent tried it Kixxe, because if you had youd realise it works, ok so maybe 15 instead of 10 but either way that many jethros mixed in with other units are a nightmare to pick off with brawlers, not so much for bombers flakkers or l2 aa bots wont stop a few bombers dropping at least 2 payloads on you.

Jethros are a bitch to pick off with Brawlers because they're small and mobile and the Brawler weapon is about as accurate as a spitball fired from a slingshot.

On the other hand, that Seaplane gunship with the riot cannons?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 29 Jun 2006, 19:50

Personally i kinda like it that there isn't l2 Kbot AA, it makes some more differences between kbots/vehicle

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 29 Jun 2006, 19:53

hmmm yeah, and the rapier with its increased aoe, tbh after thinking about it the l2 aa bots might be easier to deal with, only one or two targets to concentrate instead of lots of little moving ones ^^
unless theyre mixed with jethros too, ouch ^^
I still think they're a bad idea, I just like the fact you can only get a certain degrees of moving aa with vehicles and kbots, thats the the thing I love about this mod, the tradeoffs you get with all of the different techs.
I think the stronger l2 aa bots, whilst obviously not as useful as mobile flakkers, might make kbots too attractive and we'll see less and less players using vehicles (as ginekolog already said)

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Jun 2006, 20:03

Heh, I have an idea, Why not Add in the demolisher as arms "Sumo" styled unit. High damage, Short range, and slow.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 29 Jun 2006, 20:06

Drone_Fragger wrote:Heh, I have an idea, Why not Add in the demolisher as arms "Sumo" styled unit. High damage, Short range, and slow.

that wouldn't fit ARM imo

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 29 Jun 2006, 20:34

sumos have a short ranged weapon??? mid range at least!

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 29 Jun 2006, 21:35

All of this L3 rebalance talk is making me uneasy. Of course, that's because I tend not to use L3 very much, preferring to finish the game prior to the essential obsolence of L1 units.

I personally find some of L3 too useful, and some completely not viable. The Krog/Orcone is in the former category.

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 29 Jun 2006, 22:01

neddiedrow wrote:I personally find some of L3 too useful, and some completely not viable. The Krog/Orcone is in the former category.

Can i have some of whatever youre taking?

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 29 Jun 2006, 22:13

BigSteve wrote:I think the stronger l2 aa bots, whilst obviously not as useful as mobile flakkers, might make kbots too attractive and we'll see less and less players using vehicles (as ginekolog already said)

Hm. Actually, that's kind of a good point. Having the mobile L2 vehicle AA gives you a reason to get vehicles. KBots already have a lot of good reasons to get them - more mobile units, spies, decoy comms, farks/freakers, L3...

krogothe wrote:Can i have some of whatever youre taking?

Going to have to agree with krogothe here. The Krog/Orc are bloody useless in most games because they're a great big expensive slow target. It's almost always better to get the lighter mechs right now - Catapult, Razorback, Karganeth, Vanguard. Though the Bantha's very handy.

Theotherguy · Post by **Theotherguy** » 29 Jun 2006, 23:49

hmm, I just had an idea, what about lvl3 LMRT? would something like that be desireable?

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:18

It's a who now in the what-what?

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:20

Egarwaen wrote:
BigSteve wrote:I think the stronger l2 aa bots, whilst obviously not as useful as mobile flakkers, might make kbots too attractive and we'll see less and less players using vehicles (as ginekolog already said)
Hm. Actually, that's kind of a good point. Having the mobile L2 vehicle AA gives you a reason to get vehicles. KBots already have a lot of good reasons to get them - more mobile units, spies, decoy comms, farks/freakers, L3...

krogothe wrote:Can i have some of whatever youre taking?
Going to have to agree with krogothe here. The Krog/Orc are bloody useless in most games because they're a great big expensive slow target. It's almost always better to get the lighter mechs right now - Catapult, Razorback, Karganeth, Vanguard. Though the Bantha's very handy.

This is a big point - remember in OTA, especially pre-CC, L2 kbots were primarily special purpose units. OTA L2 kbots were freaks. Point-blank-ranged zeuses, sluggish cans, ineffective fidos, etc. Very few units actually seemed to be useful as a stand-up assault unit. This made L2 tanks very, very appealing, just so you could get a good reliable tank that will smash your opponents to bits. AA makes the freakshow a little more functional - Zeus's have a useful firing range, Cans can move a little faster, the Arm has the Fatboy to round out their unitspread, etc. As a result, getting a good, solid, tank is less of a reason to bring out the L2 vehicles. Remember that spiders were originally vehicles too.

Idunno, I don't really have a suggestion to fix the problem - I'm just observing changes from OTA that might've contributed to the move away from vehicles. I still attribute the biggest reason people don't use vehicles is the L1 construction vehicle - if the vehicle factory is the 3rd L1 factory you build, more likely than not you've already gone to L2 kbots and will forget vehicles until you decide you really need them.

And personally, the _only_ time I've used a Krogoth was because I needed to get through a base that incorporated a lot of fortification walls I needed to trample through (note: the juggernaut couldn't walk through them.)

And as for the L3 mechs - don't discount the Krogtaar. Many players will build lots of karganeths, which are seriously sub-optimal for a frontal assault. Karganeths are wonderful for a tricky all-terrain flanking manoever, and their anti-air weapons help protect them from defensive gunships, but Krogtaars beat the ever-loving crap out of them in a stand-up fight. The only L3 I've never ever seen is the mobile-bertha unit.

I'm still curious - anybody make use of L2 fighters at all? I rarely see them in game and I'm just wondering how they do.

I was thinking: how about an L1 bombardment ship? Now that guardians pwn boats, a naval version of the shellshocker would be fun.

edit: I think he meant LRMT - that is, a mobile screamer. Which, imho, is a bad idea, as it would make it harder to do a fighter defense against brawlers... unless L2 fighters are somehow Screamer-resistant (which would be nice as screamers always ruin my L1 fighter patrols).

nivek · Post by **nivek** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:25

far and away the most lacking thing in AA is a Core lvl 2 helper vehicle. the other con vehicles are so slow and clumsy, plus the nanolather taking forever to come out, they are worthless as helpers.

the way it is now, vehicles are way worse than kbots for building stuff, despite being cheaper and having better build rates. The solution is the helper con vehicles, but only arm has one. if i have any intention of building vehicles on a map, i have to go arm

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 30 Jun 2006, 00:27

nivek wrote:far and away the most lacking thing in AA is a Core lvl 2 helper vehicle. the other con vehicles are so slow and clumsy, plus the nanolather taking forever to come out, they are worthless as helpers.

the way it is now, vehicles are way worse than kbots for building stuff, despite being cheaper and having better build rates. The solution is the helper con vehicles, but only arm has one. if i have any intention of building vehicles on a map, i have to go arm

So you're suggesting the Core get a "Fark Vehicle" basically? A mobile nanotower, really. That could be fun - give it a tank's armour instead of a Fark's speed and then you can use it to do wreckage reclamation in the middle of an ative bombardment field.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 30 Jun 2006, 01:28

ffs
this is why the CORE adv vehicle con has a good chunk more builpower >.>
PLAY THE MOD DAMMIT (BEFORE commenting)

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 30 Jun 2006, 02:41

Could someone tell me why the FUCK pitbulls have as long range as dominators?!?!? Where the hell is the logic in that? >.<

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 30 Jun 2006, 03:02

Kixxe wrote:Could someone tell me why the FUCK pitbulls have as long range as dominators?!?!? Where the hell is the logic in that? >.<

Dominators are absurdly short-ranged. They have only a hair more range than Morties, and much less than Diplomats. I think they're for firing at targets high up on hills, but don't quote me on that.

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Absolute Annihilation 2.11