Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 28 Jun 2006, 00:47

Drone, if you're playing at all well, no Flea will get to your L1 Anti-Air Emplacements. Even if one did, you would surely have something there as a safeguard, like a Peewee, or LLT.

As for reducing beam laser effect against gunships... no. It isn't broken, don't try to fix it. I have seldom seen static lasers make any real difference against aircraft, and for the cost...

L1 Anti-Air fights off L1 Bombers, Gunships and Fighters. L2 fights off all planes. Don't expect L1 to cover you in mass for L2 economically. It's simple logic, lads.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 28 Jun 2006, 00:57

neddiedrow wrote:I have seldom seen static lasers make any real difference against aircraft, and for the cost...

Psst! That's because they have a massive damage reduction against aircraft right now. Like, 5 damage per shot.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 28 Jun 2006, 01:00

Drone_Fragger wrote:Indeed. I ignore air defence now. If soemones building Gunships hordes, And you can't get to them, You lose. I mean, Some games i've played, Mainly 2 v 2s, One player acts a meat shield, While the other whores gunships. Game over.

Sorry, youre talking complete shite again drone, didnt you say the first guy to build a gaurdian wins the other day? now this? sigh...
level1 anti air will protect you from brawlers if its well spaced, especially if you throw in a an anti swarm or bomber. obviously it wont beat back sustained attacks but then you wouldnt expect llts to hold off zues for very long would you? duh!
Brawlers are level2 last time I looked drone!

1 lr tower and a flakker here and their and youre sorted, adding a small number of fighters makes youre base a complete brawler free zone.
Anyone who doesnt beleive and think brawlers are op play me and spam brawlers... I'll prove it.
gunships are not all theyre cracked up to be.

Ive used brawlers alot in my time and I can safely say Gunships are perfectly balanced right now caydr, I remember you spent along time getting it right, which you have, its perfect please do not change a thing, especially not the reduced missile damage, brawlers become obsolete very quickly already, even more so with the new l2 aa bots. Its perfect right now.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 28 Jun 2006, 01:06

Egarwaen wrote:
neddiedrow wrote:I have seldom seen static lasers make any real difference against aircraft, and for the cost...
Psst! That's because they have a massive damage reduction against aircraft right now. Like, 5 damage per shot.

Be that as it may, and I knew about that beforehand, it doesn't change the fact that they currently don't do much, and it is perfectly fine. No balance issue.

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 28 Jun 2006, 01:15

after some pauses I just played a few games of AA.
just wanted to say the balance (land maps) seems quite good to me, 1v1 just as team games.
Only thing I noticed is that the ground flash from the Core Leveler weapon (this level 1 tank) seems a bit large, but maybe its ok because of the large AoE.

Peekaboom · Post by **Peekaboom** » 28 Jun 2006, 01:18

Caydr

Did you see the comments made on page 25 regarding depth chargers going back to cruisers. So far the move for that has been unanimous. At the moment, the sea balance is totally off.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 28 Jun 2006, 01:27

Indeed. I ignore air defence now. If soemones building Gunships hordes, And you can't get to them, You lose. I mean, Some games i've played, Mainly 2 v 2s, One player acts a meat shield, While the other whores gunships. Game over.

CONTEXT11!111!!!11
CONTEXT!
srsly.
On Small Supreme Commander Battlefields this is a NASTY tactic and really does OWN. Brawlers you can get extremely fast, one guy holds off the enemy (only need 17 odd minutes) the other takes the majority of the mex's and goes kbot lab->airplant->adv air using a fair chunk of nanotowers and the geo spots. this tactic is really a one off and very map specific.
because of the large area of the map a great counter would be both players pushing with a mixed land/air force in the middle with a fair bit of AA with a few fighters patrolling the coasts of the enemy to intercept brawlers.
However yes the brawler rush on SSB is nasty >=) as Drone learnt >=D

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 28 Jun 2006, 03:49

I think most people find brawlers unbalanced is because they dont build enough air defence. I find about 9 out of 10 times when I use 17 minute rapiers (core player here) they have about 5 defenders scattered around their base if even that. Like someone said before, would you expect 5 LLTs scattered around your base to stop 6 cans?

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 28 Jun 2006, 03:51

^precisely

Anothe problem seems to be people undervalueing information, if you see gunships you can build defences against them, and if you see them when they start coming at you you can send out fighters to intercept them before they are in range. Even L1 fighters behind brawlieds flying to a target are strong.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 28 Jun 2006, 04:10

FireCrack wrote:Even L1 fighters behind brawlieds flying to a target are strong.

Because of the chain-explosions, a mob of L1 fighters will take out a cluster of Brawlers pretty quickly. I don't remember exact numbers, so I was using 10 v 10 earlier in the thread, but I think it's tilted in the L1 fighters' favour. The Brawlers will do some damage, but they will die, giving you time to get some flak up.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 28 Jun 2006, 06:19

In case anyone was wondering, the chain-explosion is in place to make it so that there is effectively a "cap" to the number of gunships you can put in a swarm. Beyond X number, their chain reaction makes the extras useless. I'd say somewhere around 15 is probably the best you can do safely, with more like 30 being the upper limit.

Is this a good thing, you suppose? It served its purpose pretty well - nobody likes the escalation where you need X+1 flakkers to counter X(10) gunships and it's just this unending loop...

Naval balance again. With torpedo bombers finally working, all the pieces are now in place. I'd like to get it sorted out as soon as possible, but since I've set a deadline of Friday for 2.11, I'm not sure if I'll have enough time to revamp both water and L3. I'm already in the process of doing the L3 though, so it'll take priority.

What'll probably happen is I'll post 2.11 on schedule and immediately get to work on 2.12, the naval patch... I'll be out of town on the following Friday, Saturday, and Sunday though, so it'll get posted either on Thursday or more likely Monday. So thats.... somewhere between the 6th and 10th of July, looks like.

Still no idea about the anti-air kbots. It wouldn't be a whole lot of work but I dread texturing so I've been putting it off. Maybe 2.13

knorke wrote:Only thing I noticed is that the ground flash from the Core Leveler weapon (this level 1 tank) seems a bit large, but maybe its ok because of the large AoE.

Fixed, along with a whole bunch of other explosion related stuff.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 28 Jun 2006, 06:23

Caydr wrote:Is this a good thing, you suppose?

I like it. It means their main advantage - their ability to cluster and concentrate fire very well - also becomes a disadvantage as soon as they hit serious opposition.

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 28 Jun 2006, 06:30

Caydr wrote:In case anyone was wondering, the chain-explosion is in place to make it so that there is effectively a "cap" to the number of gunships you can put in a swarm. Beyond X number, their chain reaction makes the extras useless. I'd say somewhere around 15 is probably the best you can do safely, with more like 30 being the upper limit.

Is this a good thing, you suppose? It served its purpose pretty well - nobody likes the escalation where you need X+1 flakkers to counter X(10) gunships and it's just this unending loop...

You could say no-one likes having to need X amounts of Annihilators to top X amount of Goliaths.

I find that air combat is too easily locked down. With little effort you can protect yourself against all but the most overwhelming air raids.

Edit: I do not however think this is a problem with gunships, but a problem with T1 Fighters

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 28 Jun 2006, 06:37

Well T1 fighters are getting the nerfstick to their handling, which plays an important role in determining if they can get very many shots off.

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 28 Jun 2006, 07:22

The juno explosion is awesome, reminds me of LDSI missiles from I-War

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 28 Jun 2006, 11:03

I wish you substituted the build decals with the ones unpossible made they look way better IMO, the one we got now are just ugly imo

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 28 Jun 2006, 12:14

well he needs to ask for them first

do you want them or have you made your own?

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 28 Jun 2006, 15:13

I've got nothing against you or your ground decals, but I feel I must respectfully decline at this time.

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 28 Jun 2006, 16:59

enigmatic

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 28 Jun 2006, 17:06

Caydr wrote:I've got nothing against you or your ground decals, but I feel I must respectfully decline at this time.

make some better ones then, the current ones suck IMO

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11