Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 26 Jun 2006, 18:28

Oh yer, The Goliath weapon has an insana explosion, its like the size of a Gantry

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 26 Jun 2006, 18:30

indeed some weapons give a bit too big flashes

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 26 Jun 2006, 19:14

Also i wish geo's were a bit cheaper esspecially the Energy costs

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 26 Jun 2006, 19:28

Yeah looks like the goliath weapon has too large of an explosion, I'll fix that.

~~~~

K, yeah looks like a couple of unit explosions (SMALL_UNITEX, BIG_UNITEX) also had the wrong explosion effect assigned to them. Oops...

Rayden wrote:
unpossible wrote:
Rayden wrote:well, the moving circle from center of explosion to border shouldn't have a linear speed. It should be fastest in middle and slow down and fade out to border. Currently it looks .. hmm .. too artificial.

Anything else nice.
eh? what do you mean?
Ok after watching 20 guardian shots in slowmotion and pause ... i guess i know how to describe better ...

- the light effect around the explosion has a constant radius and intensity independent of the shock front ... i think this is not optimal and should be adjusted to the size of the shockfront
- the shockfront itself maybe a bit more stringily to inner side.
- the broadening speed of the shockwave should slow down in a exponential function
- and finally the fading out the shockwave should be 2 or 3 times slower in the end or at least start earlier

... i think this would make a much more better effect.

I would experiment by myself but unfortunally i have no idea how such an effect is done.

Everything you describe here is impossible, unfortunately...

Rayden · Post by **Rayden** » 26 Jun 2006, 20:07

Caydr how are this effects done?

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 26 Jun 2006, 20:13

I was just playing a chokepoint map and the defending player had porced himself behind fortifications. How does one get through those? I was tired of trying to go around/over them and wanted to see if there was any way to bruteforce through... and since it's hard to get most units to fire on features (not to mention that fortifications are damn tough) and the only units that can crush them are Krogs/Orcones, I was disappointed to find that I pretty much _had_ to go around them.

Oh, and Juggs don't crush them - they ought to.

Drexion · Post by **Drexion** » 26 Jun 2006, 20:20

1) I was speccing a game and was amazed to see an annihilator kill a golliath in 2 hits. 3000hp damage per shot? Seemed a bit high to me, thought i'd point it out to Caydr. And here I thought Golly's were tough =).

2) I think Pitbulls and Vipers are still too powerful. Given any kind of narrow passage, they totally eliminate any chance of someone breaking through (Specially with the big impulse the pitbull weapon seems to have?). This would not be an issue if you could kill them reasonably-quickly with Artillary or air. But these guys are POP-UP =(. I've tried to use both air and artillary to eliminate them, but while they are down on the ground this is kinda tough =p. Only way i've been able to kill these guys in this kind of scenario is to sacrifice an army to keep them "up" while air/artillary hits them to death. Of course, then the enemy can just make new ones by the time i'm ready to attack with another army =p. Heh.

I think a revisit to these 3 structures would be wise.

-Drexion

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 26 Jun 2006, 20:53

Drexion wrote:1) I was speccing a game and was amazed to see an annihilator kill a golliath in 2 hits. 3000hp damage per shot? Seemed a bit high to me, thought i'd point it out to Caydr. And here I thought Golly's were tough =).

They are. They can take two hits from a weapon that kills most units in the game instantly.

2) I think Pitbulls and Vipers are still too powerful. Given any kind of narrow passage, they totally eliminate any chance of someone breaking through (Specially with the big impulse the pitbull weapon seems to have?). This would not be an issue if you could kill them reasonably-quickly with Artillary or air. But these guys are POP-UP =(. I've tried to use both air and artillary to eliminate them, but while they are down on the ground this is kinda tough =p. Only way i've been able to kill these guys in this kind of scenario is to sacrifice an army to keep them "up" while air/artillary hits them to death. Of course, then the enemy can just make new ones by the time i'm ready to attack with another army =p. Heh.

I think you'll find that the problem is Pitbulls/Vipers backed up by a BLoD.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 26 Jun 2006, 20:54

you only have to swarm them with light fast units like fleas and a.k's to keep them up. They can't take that large a beating whilst up, so it shouldnt take too many bombers/gunships to destroy them.

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 26 Jun 2006, 20:58

Cabbage wrote:you only have to swarm them with light fast units like fleas and a.k's to keep them up. They can't take that large a beating whilst up, so it shouldnt take too many bombers/gunships to destroy them.

Any 1 unit that can get into the range of all the defences at once can get them to open up for a short while. A flea every 5 seconds is hardly that expensive.

Drexion · Post by **Drexion** » 26 Jun 2006, 21:08

I liked the flea idea to keep it up =p. Defeat by flea infestation, I like it.

The peewee charge won't really kill them, if you have a few staggered pitbulls, their painful due to AOE and impulse factor against peewee..hehe.

Air was a bit tough since he had anti-air around...Wasn't like I could stay overhead very long =). Pitbulls ate up karganeths, pyro charges, etc etc.

I still think their too powerful given their very cheap cost but okies.

-Drexion

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 26 Jun 2006, 21:42

Drexion wrote:Air was a bit tough since he had anti-air around...Wasn't like I could stay overhead very long =). Pitbulls ate up karganeths, pyro charges, etc etc.

A Krow or two or some flak-resistant gunships, preceeded by some Peepers to eat up any long-range missile towers, should do the trick.

[/quote]I still think their too powerful given their very cheap cost but okies.[/quote]

Maybe less HP, so they die faster when open?

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 26 Jun 2006, 21:46

Please Caydr, dont alter the balance!
Next patch should be graphical fixes IMO.
Lets keep the balance, as its really good atm (still IMO)

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 26 Jun 2006, 21:47

As it is, they only have about 500 more HP than HLTs, so I don't think a reduction there would be a good idea.

I'll reduce their armor when closed a little (current: 90% reduction, will be: 80% reduction... in other words, 2x as much as now, but still requiring a sustained, massive bombardment)

This should be pretty safe.

There's nothing I can do about fort walls being all but impossible to kill using normal means. Complain to the devs about it - tell them you want units to not be prohibited from attacking features.

Going to focus on L3 balance now, unless there's something else that needs my attention...?

Oh, I saw someone mention about Reaper being too much bang for the buck. Think an HP reduction would be in order? (300 or so)

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 26 Jun 2006, 22:15

Yer, 300 hp reduction sounds right. Are you going to look at the panther missle? Or do you think its fine as is?

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 26 Jun 2006, 22:25

Reaper should be to the Bulldog, as Goliath is to the Penetrator.

That was my impression of how they were in OTA, Bulldogs and Reapers were just about Toe to Toe vs eachother.

Then the Penetrator vs Goliath were the step up from Bulldog/Reaper, each with about the same potential damage and armor, just done in different ways.

That was the beauty in OTA, this whole argument about 1 unit versus 1 other unit of its same class is redundant.. the Real test of balence is in group combat.

If (2-Bulldogs + 1-Penetrator) vs (2-Reapers + 1-Goliath) comes out as an even match or very close, then you know you have it right.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 26 Jun 2006, 22:33

Caydr wrote: Oh, I saw someone mention about Reaper being too much bang for the buck. Think an HP reduction would be in order? (300 or so)

Nope, it's good as it is now. It's already pretty expensive.

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 26 Jun 2006, 22:42

Machiosabre wrote:
Caydr wrote: Oh, I saw someone mention about Reaper being too much bang for the buck. Think an HP reduction would be in order? (300 or so)
Nope, it's good as it is now. It's already pretty expensive.

Its PERFECT, like practially all the balance atm, DONT SCREW WITH IT!

Do whatever to t3 balance, revamp it totally if you feel the need. But leave t1 and t2 balanc as is so we can learn it good.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 26 Jun 2006, 23:32

Alright, fair enough... Current changes:

2.1 --> 2.11

Many weapon tolerance values increased, this should result in better
targeting
Fido now defaults to gauss mode
Maverick jitteryness when firing at close targets fixed or at least
greatly improved
Goliath weapon impact blast (visual) fixed
SMALL_UNITEX, BIG_UNITEX weapon type explosion (visual) fixed
Viper/Pitbull AoE reduced to 16 (24), Damage reduction when closed
reduced to 80% (90%)
HLT AoE reduced to 12 (16)
LLT AoE reduced to 8 (12)
All L3 units rebalanced according to mathematical formulae

I'm looking to make L3 seriously viable in the next version. I'll probably also revisit advanced fusions yet again; it's been pointed out to me that in virtually no game, regardless of length, would such a large energy production in a single unit be very helpful, even if it is highly cost-effective. What I'll probably do is have them be 2x the costs of a regular fusion while having 3x the output and 4x the HP. This way they're still within reasonable grasp.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 26 Jun 2006, 23:35

Drexion wrote:I liked the flea idea to keep it up =p. Defeat by flea infestation, I like it.

The peewee charge won't really kill them, if you have a few staggered pitbulls, their painful due to AOE and impulse factor against peewee..hehe.

Air was a bit tough since he had anti-air around...Wasn't like I could stay overhead very long =). Pitbulls ate up karganeths, pyro charges, etc etc.

I still think their too powerful given their very cheap cost but okies.

-Drexion

Well, part of your problem may be that you're trying to use rusher units against a hardened target. Perhaps you should be focussing on taking out their sighting equipment, and then bring up a jammer and some artillery and a Can or Sumo to get them to pop up? For example, if stuck with L2 kbots, I'd use a Freaker to set up a jammer just outside of range, bring in a large team of Merls, and then start charging Cans in. And why oh why are you using a Karganeth for frontal assault? The Karg is the _last_ L3 unit you should use for this. With the Karg you're paying for it's speed, it's terrain handling, it's anti-air capacity, etc. when all you really want is armour and damage-dealing. Try a Krogtaar or a Jugg or something. Or go vehicles and send in the tanks.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11

How do I get through fortifications?

Pitbull/Viper and Annihilator

Re: Pitbull/Viper and Annihilator