The AA deflector shield discussion

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 24 Jun 2006, 18:47

I don't know... I could do something purely visual of course, but such a critical part of the game probably shouldn't have too much side variation.

Arco · Post by **Arco** » 24 Jun 2006, 19:32

Caydr wrote:I don't know... I could do something purely visual of course, but such a critical part of the game probably shouldn't have too much side variation.

What about one side's being a bit cheaper to build but covering less area? So it would be easier to put one up, but for real protection you'd have to build more. That wouldn't drastically change the shield strength mechanic or anything, but would be more than just a visual difference.

kissmet · Post by **kissmet** » 24 Jun 2006, 19:55

Caydr wrote:I don't know... I could do something purely visual of course, but such a critical part of the game probably shouldn't have too much side variation.

Personally I would like to see one side with a small repulsor and the other side with a large static shield. I really would like core and arm to feel more diffrent, thus the request.

On a side note, do you think there is room for a fragile emp shield vehicle on the core side? And maybe a laser reflect shield for arm, or something else?

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 24 Jun 2006, 20:07

kissmet wrote:
Caydr wrote:I don't know... I could do something purely visual of course, but such a critical part of the game probably shouldn't have too much side variation.
Personally I would like to see one side with a small repulsor and the other side with a large static shield. I really would like core and arm to feel more diffrent, thus the request.

On a side note, do you think there is room for a fragile emp shield vehicle on the core side? And maybe a laser reflect shield for arm, or something else?

Arm only have twp EMP units IIRC and a laser shield just leads to porcing...

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:04

And cores EMP is more annoying. Becuase its flying. And hard to kill.

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:06

Drone_Fragger wrote:And cores EMP is more annoying. Becuase its flying. And hard to kill.

One missile tower. Also, one of ARMs EMP units flies...

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:10

That doesn't help versus that huge horde of flashes that just got killed by one ak becuase they all got paralysed.

Arm has a flying paralyser? Which one?

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:12

Diversity ftw. mix in a few samsons, and youll mince any bladewings.

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 24 Jun 2006, 23:17

Drone_Fragger wrote:That doesn't help versus that huge horde of flashes that just got killed by one ak becuase they all got paralysed.

Arm has a flying paralyser? Which one?

It's called the Stiletto, IIRC, it's a lvl2 EMP bomber and very effective.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 25 Jun 2006, 01:37

Drone_Fragger wrote:That doesn't help versus that huge horde of flashes that just got killed by one ak becuase they all got paralysed.

If you have the money for a horde of flashes, you have the money to throw in a Samson per, say, 10 Flashes.

Stops Bladewings dead.

Might be a bit advanced for you, though..

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 25 Jun 2006, 15:24

Thats kind of obvious, But if you aren't expecting Air when you send the flashes off, Its a waste of metal. The Flashes are better than samsons Versus ground.

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 25 Jun 2006, 16:05

Drone, better to be prepared, than lose an entire flash raid because of 1-2 bladewings. The costs of that 1 samson is well worth its price in a lvl1 mixed group.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 25 Jun 2006, 16:19

Especially since Samsons, unlike Jethros, can provide long-range fire support for your tanks...

Rayden · Post by **Rayden** » 25 Jun 2006, 16:32

Offtopic

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 26 Jun 2006, 04:45

As of AA210, verdict?

Rayden · Post by **Rayden** » 26 Jun 2006, 08:09

Well, the shields are better than before, i like they have to be charged first after beeing built.
Unfortunally i haven't seen any durability test on shields cause in last game we used only rockets. And it may be nice to have a fully shielded base but if you have a missile rain over you it still doesn't really help

But in general .. good changes Cadyr.

Just an idea:
- make shields resistant vs. rockets
- BUT: give EMP rockets a role as shield-draining weapons.
- A direct EMP strike on shield generator will disable the shield instantly

Why doesn't this lead to turtling players:
- lvl 2/3 units will still deactivate shields pretty fast under massive rocket fire
- an EMP strike will lower the shields fast.

Problems:
- shield would probably have to be deactivated for nuke and anti-nuke, so maybe it's a bad idea and shields should stay as they are now.

Dwarden · Post by **Dwarden** » 26 Jun 2006, 11:39

instead of shield against rockets i would like to see modified repulsing effect (that which push away incoming plasma) from RepulseTower...

BUT this time beam will annihilate incoming rocket(s) ...
of course it need quite fast rate of fire and turning speed
also this defense structure needs clear LOS at incoming missiles/rockets

so either it must be low profile (ideally like gaus popup while not active)
or tall (at least like AA long range turrets) ....

again each hit at missile / rocket cost energy from buffer
+ some recharge time after "buffer" is depleted ...

this weapon is inspired by USA/Israel anti-missile laser weapons in development, mainly due to threat of unguided short-medium range ones ... (they enough precise to be able shoot incoming arty shells)
successfull tests were already done with prototypes ...

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 26 Jun 2006, 17:19

Rayden wrote:- make shields resistant vs. rockets

It's been said in the main AA thread, but this is a really bad idea. Right now, you can attack defences inside a shield with, say, Merls. If this change is implemented, you'll have nothing that can attack them but close-assault units.

Do you want to try to break through a fortified late-game defensive line with Panthers, Zeuses, Penetrators, and Sharpshooters as your only damage sources? Didn't think so.

- lvl 2/3 units will still deactivate shields pretty fast under massive rocket fire

This would be the same shield that can take three minutes of fire from two Berthas before going down? Those L2/3 units will be smoking wreckage before they get the shield down, unless your opponent's a moron and has no defences near its edge.

shield would probably have to be deactivated for nuke and anti-nuke, so maybe it's a bad idea and shields should stay as they are now.

Plus, aren't the EMP missiles you suggest could be a shield counter rocket-type weapons ?

Rayden · Post by **Rayden** » 26 Jun 2006, 17:33

Thx Egarwean ... at least a constructive post

I guess unfortunally you are right ... it would lead to more problems. But i thought most lvl2/3 long range rockets can outrange even an Annihilator and you maybe support this units with long range plasma batteries.

In case of EMP rockets i thought it this way that EMP-weapons should just drain more energy from shield then conventional weapons.

Anyway i'm always open for counter-arguments.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 26 Jun 2006, 17:40

Rayden wrote:I guess unfortunally you are right ... it would lead to more problems. But i thought most lvl2/3 long range rockets can outrange even an Annihilator and you maybe support this units with long range plasma batteries.

AFAIK, the only things that actually outrange an Annihilator are LRPCs, Vanguards, cruise missiles, nuclear missiles, and Catapults. MERLs and Diplomats don't, but theoretically have enough armor to survive long enough to let off a volley of rockets. Plasma batteries don't, but can (with planning) be built behind a hill or fort walls to bombard it.

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The AA deflector shield discussion