Expand and Exterminate version 0.163 Released
Moderator: Moderators
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
I think for 0.160 I will be doing the following:
-lvl 1 arty will recieve a range boost, possibly including the emplaced lvl 1 turrets
-URC plasma weapons will have their dmg reduced vs air targets
-Ships will be generally looked at speed/cost/health wise
-lvl 2 torpedo bomber added to both sides
-GD lvl 1/2 economy readjusted to be slightly faster than it is now
-GD amphibious tanks will receive a slight speed boost
-lvl 1 arty will recieve a range boost, possibly including the emplaced lvl 1 turrets
-URC plasma weapons will have their dmg reduced vs air targets
-Ships will be generally looked at speed/cost/health wise
-lvl 2 torpedo bomber added to both sides
-GD lvl 1/2 economy readjusted to be slightly faster than it is now
-GD amphibious tanks will receive a slight speed boost
WTF!? you have to jam them? No wonder I've had no success with them. I took "stealth" to mean "stealth and cloaked" - not just "cloaked".Aun wrote:I think stealth bots have a bad reputation because people build them and use them like normal attackers, almost always without mobile ECM.Forboding Angel wrote:Fang: The reason I don't use the stealth units too much is probably the cost, even though at the moment I have no idea what the current cost difference is (could be a placebo effect as well).
They're perfect for sneaking into the vunerable innards of a base and wreaking havoc on factories, mexes, generators, storage, aa...
The most important thing (after jamming) is to scout ahead with spiders and aircraft so you don't accidentally bump into a defence line.
Oh, remember the ever useful 'Hold fire' and Hold position'.
nope, they're stealthed.
From urcspider2pck.fbi
From urcspider2rck.fbi
And just one more:
From urcspider3pck.fbi
[edit]Fang beat me to it, nuts[/edit]
From urcspider2pck.fbi
Code: Select all
...
Description=: Stealth Plasma Mech;
...
Stealth=1;
...Code: Select all
...
Description=: Stealth Rocket Mech;
...
Stealth=1;
...From urcspider3pck.fbi
Code: Select all
...
Description=: Heavy Stealth Plasma Mech;
...
Stealth=1;
...
Hey all,
If the idea if level 2 and level 3 units is to support rather than replace the level 1 units then i would suggest condensing the current tech level into a single level produceable by the level 1 factory.
The COST of the units would dictate what you build, rather than the prerequiste of a building.
I like the idea of stealth buildings generally, perhaps you could have a stealth factory produceable by a non stealth builder and then that stealth factory could allow a stealth builder who was capable of building stealth versions of everything.
I think stealth units rather than being weaker should be more expensive, generally, if not exclusively.
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If air is only supposed to function as a helicopter, as fire support for tanks then i would suggest removing the bombers and the AA aircraft and making the aircraft reletively slow, though obviously they would still be much more capable of rapid deployment than the ground units by simple virtue that they are uninhibited by terrain.
they should prioritise air targets and be able to fire vs air and ground. this would give you support only for ground units and those units would be the counter to the other airforce, it would be more a case of numbers than type.
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The movement rate of a unit fundamentally seperates it from other units, if you have fast units and slow units people WILL group them into fast and slow simply because when they tell group 1 to move to x point they want them to stay together and get there at the same time.
I believe that the heavy units (being produced from the level 1 plant) should be inefficient on cost so that people wont field all heavies cos they would be annihilated by lighter cheaper mechs.
This would encourage use of mixed groups of lights and heavies, this would further be made true by consensing the unit selection.
the slow units should be units designed specifically with base assault in mind, units such as the heavy flamer mech of the URC.
That would seperate units into skirmishers / general troops and specialist base assault troops for taking out heavily defended areas.
I havent really looked into if you can use the current transports in this way or not, but i had thought that you could use a unit like a transport in a different way, rather than it beign a transport it would be more of a custom heavy unit. you would use the standard level 1 mechs and put different varieties of these units into the transport to dictate the armament of the super unit. the units inside would benifit from the new movement and defensive characteristics of the 'transport' if you can modifiy things like the range of the units inside while they are inside the larger one then so much the better
atm i think that the base defences are not in keeping with the game philosophy as i understand it.
if people are supposed to use units and not buildings to defend then there should be no building version of the standard units.
building defences should be long range compared to the units but not so long in range so as to lead to base vs base fighting that you get in AA etc.
The defences should make your territory hostile to enemy forces but not so hostile as to stop the enemy attacking with base defences alone.
This would be acheieved perhaps by dealing small amounts of damage over a wide area at medium range.
atm the heavy missle launcher has such range that it becomes an offensive rather than defensive building.
i think nukes should come very late in the game to break stalemates, i think games are more interesting when they are desided by close quaters fighting and the taking and holding of ground.
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Also if you condense the units into a single army which can be built from the light factory then you can then use medium and heavy factories (and even super heavy and beyond etc) to produce units more efficiently and / or faster.
all the buildings should be about locking down terrain / area denial and building a stronger economy and the units should be about destroying the enemy bases and units.
atm things like heavy artillery units are in a defensive role as if you want to attack with artillery you would be better served building a heavy arty building as it has much much greater range and also the heavy artillery unit gives you the area damage that is lacking in base defence structures. (there is only the light mortar and this lacks range and punching power vs tech 2 and 3 targets.)
i was toying with the idea of there being more defensive buildings like the super heavy defence building.
Perhaps you could have a range of different shapes and sizes of defence building, like preset defence types with different arrays of weapons.
Like a line, horse shoe, wedge etc
This would on the negative side limit the players creativitiy, but it would also on the plus side speed up the plannign of defences, players would spend less time in a porcing mindset placing buildings strategically and would free up player time to be invested in the planning of attacks and the control of units.
another thought is to have buildings with weapons already on them, perhaps that would be a variant of the building rather than a change to all existing buildings. much like the stealth variant.
Also regarding the airforce, if you down play the air side so that it is just a support to the ground then you could reduce the hps on the aircraft or whatever needs doing and make them defeatable by standard units removing the need for a specialist AA defence for something that isnt supposed to be attacking on its own anyway.
Or you could you could retain the AA as a base building to stop air attacks on the buildings and limit them to attacking ground units.
That would have the effect of making air the primary choice for skirmish and general purpose (dependant ofcourse on the economic cost for such aircraft) and make ground units the only choice for attacking a base. (or a ground assault would have to at least take out the AA and open the door for the air strike.)
I much prefer the idea of the elimination of AA completely along with the bomber and AA aircraft and having standard units killing aircraft OR the expantion of the air idea and having AA set up in such a way as to allow bombers to attack past ground defences and only be stopped by airborne AA (stopped before dealing damage, the AA ground should kill the bombers slowly over time from long range with a large build footprint / cost or something to stop them being spammed) ground attack vtols would be unable to attack the bases as the long range AA would take them out before they got close due to thier low hps. (they have high hps atm, but that could be adjusted.)
Im told that aircraft are supposed to use speed to attack undefended positions, but as things are currently its far more likely that you would find a factory with an AA defence but no ground defence than the opposite.
i think the spider should have a radar rather than the ability to lay mines, perhaps a built one like the GD, but i was thinking more of a radar fitted to the actual spider like the GD radar tank.
I think this would define the role of the spider better and i think it would make it more accessable to new and inexperienced players who i believe over look and under use the spider, and as i understand it the spider is vital to the URC game.
Is there a way to prioritise the distribution of power? I dont think that power to mexes and cloaked vehicles should go offline when power stalls due to vehicle production if its avoidable, if this were real, you would certainly not reveal your cloaked units just to fit an extra pannel or weapon to a vehicle in a factory which was way off being finished anyway. (or even if it was close to being finished!)
I realise the counter to this arguement is that if you dont want your cloaks to loose stealth then you shouldnt stall your energy, and while this is a fair enough point you need to bare in mind that a side that depends on cloak is far more serverly punished for a lack of energy than a non stealth side and this is unbalanced. (unless there are other factors which cause this state to be balanced that im not seeing.)
I was also thinking that the area of storage of energy and metal could be enchanced, perhaps with more variety in size and capacity, being armed or stealthed or having a storage component fitted to the mexes / generators themselves. again this could be a standard feature or a building type varient.
buildings and economy should be as interesting and varied as units.
I think the buffing of those level 2 units was a big mistake, that makes the game play out as a series of tiers and tech levels rather than creating the combined force you are seeking. on large maps the speed of the light mechs might make them useful still, but i believe that people will phase out light in favor of heavy use ground attack air for speed over light ground and the game will be come more about who can tech up first and win on the grounds that they have better units rather than better played units.
btw i know i said in a previous post that tech 2 and 3 should be more efficient versions of the level 1's.. but i was wrong to think that, when you add more hps to a unit, you enable it to do things that a lower hp unit cannot, most notably soak up area damage and survive to gain experience and power this enherently makes them more useful than the level 1s and so that would give them a place in the army even if they cost you alot more (were less efficient) than level 1's.
I also think that the whole experience thing is a balance nightmare, adds little or nothing to the game and should be scrapped or downplayed to be of little or no importance beyond a kudos value. This would allow you more power over the strengths and weakness of units as they would be the same on the field as they were coming out of the factory and would reduce or remove the effect that large hp vehicles were naturally way more powerful than low hps units.
Experience gain on defensive structures / positions can also lead to them being undefeatable once they have racked up enough kills. (this is also true for attacking units but is more of an issue with defences as they are static and perhaps not under direct fire whereas the units are more liekly to move into a position where they are killed or be taking fire on the front line.)
Takecare all and have fun =)
Guffrus
P.S. My pooter has grown tired of giving me the blue screen of death and is now back up and running so ill probs see you in game soon =D
Though my pooter even when working is a bag of crap and not capable of large battles really. =(
P.P.S. Fang.. havent you been redoing the models to have more polys? I would think that the aim should be to have the best looking units you can few as few polies as possible to increase performance and allow greater scale / larger battles.
Perhaps there could be a low poly and high poly version?? Choice is always king, everyone is different and one size will never fit all.
If the idea if level 2 and level 3 units is to support rather than replace the level 1 units then i would suggest condensing the current tech level into a single level produceable by the level 1 factory.
The COST of the units would dictate what you build, rather than the prerequiste of a building.
I like the idea of stealth buildings generally, perhaps you could have a stealth factory produceable by a non stealth builder and then that stealth factory could allow a stealth builder who was capable of building stealth versions of everything.
I think stealth units rather than being weaker should be more expensive, generally, if not exclusively.
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If air is only supposed to function as a helicopter, as fire support for tanks then i would suggest removing the bombers and the AA aircraft and making the aircraft reletively slow, though obviously they would still be much more capable of rapid deployment than the ground units by simple virtue that they are uninhibited by terrain.
they should prioritise air targets and be able to fire vs air and ground. this would give you support only for ground units and those units would be the counter to the other airforce, it would be more a case of numbers than type.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The movement rate of a unit fundamentally seperates it from other units, if you have fast units and slow units people WILL group them into fast and slow simply because when they tell group 1 to move to x point they want them to stay together and get there at the same time.
I believe that the heavy units (being produced from the level 1 plant) should be inefficient on cost so that people wont field all heavies cos they would be annihilated by lighter cheaper mechs.
This would encourage use of mixed groups of lights and heavies, this would further be made true by consensing the unit selection.
the slow units should be units designed specifically with base assault in mind, units such as the heavy flamer mech of the URC.
That would seperate units into skirmishers / general troops and specialist base assault troops for taking out heavily defended areas.
I havent really looked into if you can use the current transports in this way or not, but i had thought that you could use a unit like a transport in a different way, rather than it beign a transport it would be more of a custom heavy unit. you would use the standard level 1 mechs and put different varieties of these units into the transport to dictate the armament of the super unit. the units inside would benifit from the new movement and defensive characteristics of the 'transport' if you can modifiy things like the range of the units inside while they are inside the larger one then so much the better
atm i think that the base defences are not in keeping with the game philosophy as i understand it.
if people are supposed to use units and not buildings to defend then there should be no building version of the standard units.
building defences should be long range compared to the units but not so long in range so as to lead to base vs base fighting that you get in AA etc.
The defences should make your territory hostile to enemy forces but not so hostile as to stop the enemy attacking with base defences alone.
This would be acheieved perhaps by dealing small amounts of damage over a wide area at medium range.
atm the heavy missle launcher has such range that it becomes an offensive rather than defensive building.
i think nukes should come very late in the game to break stalemates, i think games are more interesting when they are desided by close quaters fighting and the taking and holding of ground.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also if you condense the units into a single army which can be built from the light factory then you can then use medium and heavy factories (and even super heavy and beyond etc) to produce units more efficiently and / or faster.
all the buildings should be about locking down terrain / area denial and building a stronger economy and the units should be about destroying the enemy bases and units.
atm things like heavy artillery units are in a defensive role as if you want to attack with artillery you would be better served building a heavy arty building as it has much much greater range and also the heavy artillery unit gives you the area damage that is lacking in base defence structures. (there is only the light mortar and this lacks range and punching power vs tech 2 and 3 targets.)
i was toying with the idea of there being more defensive buildings like the super heavy defence building.
Perhaps you could have a range of different shapes and sizes of defence building, like preset defence types with different arrays of weapons.
Like a line, horse shoe, wedge etc
This would on the negative side limit the players creativitiy, but it would also on the plus side speed up the plannign of defences, players would spend less time in a porcing mindset placing buildings strategically and would free up player time to be invested in the planning of attacks and the control of units.
another thought is to have buildings with weapons already on them, perhaps that would be a variant of the building rather than a change to all existing buildings. much like the stealth variant.
Also regarding the airforce, if you down play the air side so that it is just a support to the ground then you could reduce the hps on the aircraft or whatever needs doing and make them defeatable by standard units removing the need for a specialist AA defence for something that isnt supposed to be attacking on its own anyway.
Or you could you could retain the AA as a base building to stop air attacks on the buildings and limit them to attacking ground units.
That would have the effect of making air the primary choice for skirmish and general purpose (dependant ofcourse on the economic cost for such aircraft) and make ground units the only choice for attacking a base. (or a ground assault would have to at least take out the AA and open the door for the air strike.)
I much prefer the idea of the elimination of AA completely along with the bomber and AA aircraft and having standard units killing aircraft OR the expantion of the air idea and having AA set up in such a way as to allow bombers to attack past ground defences and only be stopped by airborne AA (stopped before dealing damage, the AA ground should kill the bombers slowly over time from long range with a large build footprint / cost or something to stop them being spammed) ground attack vtols would be unable to attack the bases as the long range AA would take them out before they got close due to thier low hps. (they have high hps atm, but that could be adjusted.)
Im told that aircraft are supposed to use speed to attack undefended positions, but as things are currently its far more likely that you would find a factory with an AA defence but no ground defence than the opposite.
i think the spider should have a radar rather than the ability to lay mines, perhaps a built one like the GD, but i was thinking more of a radar fitted to the actual spider like the GD radar tank.
I think this would define the role of the spider better and i think it would make it more accessable to new and inexperienced players who i believe over look and under use the spider, and as i understand it the spider is vital to the URC game.
Is there a way to prioritise the distribution of power? I dont think that power to mexes and cloaked vehicles should go offline when power stalls due to vehicle production if its avoidable, if this were real, you would certainly not reveal your cloaked units just to fit an extra pannel or weapon to a vehicle in a factory which was way off being finished anyway. (or even if it was close to being finished!)
I realise the counter to this arguement is that if you dont want your cloaks to loose stealth then you shouldnt stall your energy, and while this is a fair enough point you need to bare in mind that a side that depends on cloak is far more serverly punished for a lack of energy than a non stealth side and this is unbalanced. (unless there are other factors which cause this state to be balanced that im not seeing.)
I was also thinking that the area of storage of energy and metal could be enchanced, perhaps with more variety in size and capacity, being armed or stealthed or having a storage component fitted to the mexes / generators themselves. again this could be a standard feature or a building type varient.
buildings and economy should be as interesting and varied as units.
I think the buffing of those level 2 units was a big mistake, that makes the game play out as a series of tiers and tech levels rather than creating the combined force you are seeking. on large maps the speed of the light mechs might make them useful still, but i believe that people will phase out light in favor of heavy use ground attack air for speed over light ground and the game will be come more about who can tech up first and win on the grounds that they have better units rather than better played units.
btw i know i said in a previous post that tech 2 and 3 should be more efficient versions of the level 1's.. but i was wrong to think that, when you add more hps to a unit, you enable it to do things that a lower hp unit cannot, most notably soak up area damage and survive to gain experience and power this enherently makes them more useful than the level 1s and so that would give them a place in the army even if they cost you alot more (were less efficient) than level 1's.
I also think that the whole experience thing is a balance nightmare, adds little or nothing to the game and should be scrapped or downplayed to be of little or no importance beyond a kudos value. This would allow you more power over the strengths and weakness of units as they would be the same on the field as they were coming out of the factory and would reduce or remove the effect that large hp vehicles were naturally way more powerful than low hps units.
Experience gain on defensive structures / positions can also lead to them being undefeatable once they have racked up enough kills. (this is also true for attacking units but is more of an issue with defences as they are static and perhaps not under direct fire whereas the units are more liekly to move into a position where they are killed or be taking fire on the front line.)
Takecare all and have fun =)
Guffrus
P.S. My pooter has grown tired of giving me the blue screen of death and is now back up and running so ill probs see you in game soon =D
Though my pooter even when working is a bag of crap and not capable of large battles really. =(
P.P.S. Fang.. havent you been redoing the models to have more polys? I would think that the aim should be to have the best looking units you can few as few polies as possible to increase performance and allow greater scale / larger battles.
Perhaps there could be a low poly and high poly version?? Choice is always king, everyone is different and one size will never fit all.
*WALLOFTEXT*
Anyways, so what you're saying is you want all tech from one fac, no more AA guns/units, no more bombers, cloaks that don't run out of energy, and a rebalance of the T2 and 3 units? Not to mention improved porcing with stronger turrets and superunits.
First of all, I dont want to sound like an ass but it seems you either haven't played much EE or have played on speedmetal or something. T2 and T3 units are RARELY used in swarms, mostly due to the fact you stated. It's much more cost effective already to make loads of T1 units with a few 2 and 3's.
Secondly, how is having everything from one fac going to work? All thats gonna happen is the GD will rush a nuker and annihilate anything else. Also, EE is not meant to have any superunits, as having those result in the game being a porc-fest until someone builds a couple, like in AATA.
Thirdly, you really need to play the different races. The GD already have armed mexes as their T2 extractors, so that point is null. On the your point of requiring air AA to take down bombers, the whole point of a bomber is to attack after your ground forces or other air take out AA guns/units.
Again, you say that people will only use T2 and T3 units eventually, which is wrong because roughly 4 or 5 (or less) T1's can easily take out a T2. It seems that you just need to play as the GD, or play more games, as most of your points are already invalid.
Anyways, so what you're saying is you want all tech from one fac, no more AA guns/units, no more bombers, cloaks that don't run out of energy, and a rebalance of the T2 and 3 units? Not to mention improved porcing with stronger turrets and superunits.
First of all, I dont want to sound like an ass but it seems you either haven't played much EE or have played on speedmetal or something. T2 and T3 units are RARELY used in swarms, mostly due to the fact you stated. It's much more cost effective already to make loads of T1 units with a few 2 and 3's.
Secondly, how is having everything from one fac going to work? All thats gonna happen is the GD will rush a nuker and annihilate anything else. Also, EE is not meant to have any superunits, as having those result in the game being a porc-fest until someone builds a couple, like in AATA.
Thirdly, you really need to play the different races. The GD already have armed mexes as their T2 extractors, so that point is null. On the your point of requiring air AA to take down bombers, the whole point of a bomber is to attack after your ground forces or other air take out AA guns/units.
Again, you say that people will only use T2 and T3 units eventually, which is wrong because roughly 4 or 5 (or less) T1's can easily take out a T2. It seems that you just need to play as the GD, or play more games, as most of your points are already invalid.
Malphas,
I will try to be polite, even though you have not shown me that same curitosy.
You have completely misunderstood my post as your version of my post is not what i am saying at all.
For the record i am well aware that the GD LEVEL 1 builder version mex is armed.
Im not certain about the tier 2 mex, but im fairly sure it is unarmed just as the teir 2 URC mex is not cloaked.
I didnt say anything about cloaks not running out of energy, clearly they do need to be able to fail, but i guess i was thinking along the lines of that happening as a result of hostile action against your energy economy rather than a result of your own unit production.
It was only a thought, perhaps it was a bad one, perhaps the cloaks failing on an economy stall is required.
I was never talking in absolutes as you do though, i am attempting to bring ideas and constructive positive things to this forum in hopes of the ultimatly gaming experience. Im not here to win points in some stupid game of exchanging insults, its a waste of everyones time.
There is a problem with air it is not currently working as intended, Fang himself said, following a post of mine regarding air in which i was trying to offer ideas to help define the roles of the various aircraft :
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I cant say I utterly disagree with your thoughts on aircraft balance I do think that atm its set up in a band aid sort of fashion and I dont really like how a small amount of AA makes any air utterly useless. That said I dont want a small amount of air to be an end game force even at lvl 1. What you have to understand about these aircraft is that they are not an out and out airforce but more of what say the marines have a attached to them ground support craft and limited fighter capabilites.. most of them are supposed to function like a helicopter. Ill start pondering somthing
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You see i had felt that the bombers should be a deep striking anti base unit and that ground attack vtols should be anti ground.
Fang said that aircraft are supposed to be more like what the apache gunships are to the us marines. Rather than what the airforce is to the marines.
With that in mind i proposed that the bombers and AA etc be removed as those types of units are an airforce type role, not a gunship type role.
BECAUSE THIS IS INKEEPING WITH THE GAME CONCEPT AS DEFINED BY ITS CREATOR.
I have nothing against bombers, i think they are cool.
I have following your post launched a single player game and taken down the value of the plasma mech units from teirs 1 through 3 and compared them, it does seem that as you say there is a slight cost efficiency advantage to the level 1s, without having access to the damage, RoF and accuracy values i cannot analyse the data and draw a definate conclusion. However it would seem to me that when you factor in the effects of experience gain and the fact that the heavy mech has 7.5 times more hps but is not 7.5 times larger in terms of physical presence in the game world you will see that the heavier mechs are infact metal for metal more powerful and more efficient than the level ones.
This being the case it is more viable to produce heavier mechs over lighter mechs, leading to the situation i outlined before about the lighter mechs becoming obsolete.
Now again, them becoing obsolete isnt nessacarily a problem in itself, there are many games which work on this principle.
However... again the game concept as i understand it is to have level 1 units in service throughout the game, reread my last post for further information on this subject.
Regarding the transport idea and 'super unit' perhaps super unit was the wrong term to use, i didnt mean to suggest that the unit would be so powerful that it was a game winner. What i did mean was that such a unit could be a means of having heavier units such as the current tech 3 units without making the level 1s obsolete, infact the level one units would have to be produced to contruct these heavy units.
Regarding your idea of the use of a bomber.. you dont need specialist AA to take out a bomber and even if you did you would not be able to 'take out nme AA and then send in bombers' as you can build a level 1 sam mech in a very very short time from a factory that is being supercharged with builders and AA is so over powered that a single level 1 sam mech would cut up a heavy bomber in no time at all, again without access to the damage output of the sam i cant tell you how long, but its not along time and bombers need an age to circle around and find a target.
And if the nme is so beaten that they cant do that then you have no need of bombers because you can just kill the nme with whatever you broke him with.
Furthermore the use of aircraft as explained to me is to use speed and surprise to attack undefended nme positions. As i believe i stated in my last post.
Ah yes, your last misunderstanding regarding GD simply producing a nuke arty.
I guess you must have missed the bit where i stated that i thought that nukes should be an end game weapon?
I dont see how 'end game weapon' and GD would build a nuke as the first unit go together.
I did say that what dictated what you built would be the COST and not the prerequiste of a building. What that means in other words is that even if you could build the nuke arty from the level 1 factory you would not be able to build it in the time scale you are suggesting due to its COST you would only be able to build one when you had sufficient resources to do so. And please dont now try and come back at me saying well it only costs such and such because if that was a problem it could be changed to make it work as intended. OR that particular unit could be produced in another factory.
The point of condensing the army is to give you one complete army, in which no units are ever obsolete and to avoid the problem which Zpock outlined as each teir simply being level 1 rocket, level 2 rocket, level 3 rocket etc..
Guffrus
I will try to be polite, even though you have not shown me that same curitosy.
You have completely misunderstood my post as your version of my post is not what i am saying at all.
For the record i am well aware that the GD LEVEL 1 builder version mex is armed.
Im not certain about the tier 2 mex, but im fairly sure it is unarmed just as the teir 2 URC mex is not cloaked.
I didnt say anything about cloaks not running out of energy, clearly they do need to be able to fail, but i guess i was thinking along the lines of that happening as a result of hostile action against your energy economy rather than a result of your own unit production.
It was only a thought, perhaps it was a bad one, perhaps the cloaks failing on an economy stall is required.
I was never talking in absolutes as you do though, i am attempting to bring ideas and constructive positive things to this forum in hopes of the ultimatly gaming experience. Im not here to win points in some stupid game of exchanging insults, its a waste of everyones time.
There is a problem with air it is not currently working as intended, Fang himself said, following a post of mine regarding air in which i was trying to offer ideas to help define the roles of the various aircraft :
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I cant say I utterly disagree with your thoughts on aircraft balance I do think that atm its set up in a band aid sort of fashion and I dont really like how a small amount of AA makes any air utterly useless. That said I dont want a small amount of air to be an end game force even at lvl 1. What you have to understand about these aircraft is that they are not an out and out airforce but more of what say the marines have a attached to them ground support craft and limited fighter capabilites.. most of them are supposed to function like a helicopter. Ill start pondering somthing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see i had felt that the bombers should be a deep striking anti base unit and that ground attack vtols should be anti ground.
Fang said that aircraft are supposed to be more like what the apache gunships are to the us marines. Rather than what the airforce is to the marines.
With that in mind i proposed that the bombers and AA etc be removed as those types of units are an airforce type role, not a gunship type role.
BECAUSE THIS IS INKEEPING WITH THE GAME CONCEPT AS DEFINED BY ITS CREATOR.
I have nothing against bombers, i think they are cool.
I have following your post launched a single player game and taken down the value of the plasma mech units from teirs 1 through 3 and compared them, it does seem that as you say there is a slight cost efficiency advantage to the level 1s, without having access to the damage, RoF and accuracy values i cannot analyse the data and draw a definate conclusion. However it would seem to me that when you factor in the effects of experience gain and the fact that the heavy mech has 7.5 times more hps but is not 7.5 times larger in terms of physical presence in the game world you will see that the heavier mechs are infact metal for metal more powerful and more efficient than the level ones.
This being the case it is more viable to produce heavier mechs over lighter mechs, leading to the situation i outlined before about the lighter mechs becoming obsolete.
Now again, them becoing obsolete isnt nessacarily a problem in itself, there are many games which work on this principle.
However... again the game concept as i understand it is to have level 1 units in service throughout the game, reread my last post for further information on this subject.
Regarding the transport idea and 'super unit' perhaps super unit was the wrong term to use, i didnt mean to suggest that the unit would be so powerful that it was a game winner. What i did mean was that such a unit could be a means of having heavier units such as the current tech 3 units without making the level 1s obsolete, infact the level one units would have to be produced to contruct these heavy units.
Regarding your idea of the use of a bomber.. you dont need specialist AA to take out a bomber and even if you did you would not be able to 'take out nme AA and then send in bombers' as you can build a level 1 sam mech in a very very short time from a factory that is being supercharged with builders and AA is so over powered that a single level 1 sam mech would cut up a heavy bomber in no time at all, again without access to the damage output of the sam i cant tell you how long, but its not along time and bombers need an age to circle around and find a target.
And if the nme is so beaten that they cant do that then you have no need of bombers because you can just kill the nme with whatever you broke him with.
Furthermore the use of aircraft as explained to me is to use speed and surprise to attack undefended nme positions. As i believe i stated in my last post.
Ah yes, your last misunderstanding regarding GD simply producing a nuke arty.
I guess you must have missed the bit where i stated that i thought that nukes should be an end game weapon?
I dont see how 'end game weapon' and GD would build a nuke as the first unit go together.
I did say that what dictated what you built would be the COST and not the prerequiste of a building. What that means in other words is that even if you could build the nuke arty from the level 1 factory you would not be able to build it in the time scale you are suggesting due to its COST you would only be able to build one when you had sufficient resources to do so. And please dont now try and come back at me saying well it only costs such and such because if that was a problem it could be changed to make it work as intended. OR that particular unit could be produced in another factory.
The point of condensing the army is to give you one complete army, in which no units are ever obsolete and to avoid the problem which Zpock outlined as each teir simply being level 1 rocket, level 2 rocket, level 3 rocket etc..
Guffrus
Grufus:
I read many points and I will not argue it all because I do not feel like replying to all of that. Consider this, attack ONE issue at a time. Large posts like that only build into giagantic posts for replies. Which will lose focus and the issue will be forgotten. Try to consider more digestable chunks in order to promote helpfull discussion and sollutions.
The japanese have a word for this it is "detarame."
All that text is just wasted space. I know that few people are reading your small novel. I will say that I did not agrea with you posts I feel you are generaly poorly informed or have some amount of misconcieved notions.
I read many points and I will not argue it all because I do not feel like replying to all of that. Consider this, attack ONE issue at a time. Large posts like that only build into giagantic posts for replies. Which will lose focus and the issue will be forgotten. Try to consider more digestable chunks in order to promote helpfull discussion and sollutions.
The japanese have a word for this it is "detarame."
All that text is just wasted space. I know that few people are reading your small novel. I will say that I did not agrea with you posts I feel you are generaly poorly informed or have some amount of misconcieved notions.
*SKIP ON, POST IS NOT RELEVANT TO EE*
Smoth,
You do have a point and i wish the posts were smaller and will try to bear what you have said in mind if and when i post again.
There really isnt a need for anyone to reply telling me why i am wrong though.. all i have ever asked is that if you are going to post telling me why i am wrong, that you do so without attacking me personally and that you atleast try to understand what im saying.
Maybe only a few people are reading what i write, but really if even one person reads it, doesnt that make it worth posting? Infact even if no one reads what im posting it is still of value to me, because i will then know that i have tried to give something and not stood silent with my ideas kept to myself working from the assumption that no one wants to hear what i have to say. I have no control over who reads what i write and who doesnt and i would certainly never want to force you to read it. So if someone cant manage a long post, or simply doesnt care for what i have to say, then i guess they wont read it.
I guess i will stop posting if and when i feel it is a waste of my time or i have nothing to contribute.
Guffrus
Smoth,
You do have a point and i wish the posts were smaller and will try to bear what you have said in mind if and when i post again.
There really isnt a need for anyone to reply telling me why i am wrong though.. all i have ever asked is that if you are going to post telling me why i am wrong, that you do so without attacking me personally and that you atleast try to understand what im saying.
Maybe only a few people are reading what i write, but really if even one person reads it, doesnt that make it worth posting? Infact even if no one reads what im posting it is still of value to me, because i will then know that i have tried to give something and not stood silent with my ideas kept to myself working from the assumption that no one wants to hear what i have to say. I have no control over who reads what i write and who doesnt and i would certainly never want to force you to read it. So if someone cant manage a long post, or simply doesnt care for what i have to say, then i guess they wont read it.
I guess i will stop posting if and when i feel it is a waste of my time or i have nothing to contribute.
Guffrus
I'll grant that I was really chafed by your suggestion that all the facs should be condensed into one. And by my "absolutes", I was just trying to make sense out of your novel, so unless you want more misunderstandings, you really should be a tad concise.
EDIT: And how are we attacking you personally? All I said was that it seemed like you hadn't played much EE, not like I hate your guts or something.
EDIT: And how are we attacking you personally? All I said was that it seemed like you hadn't played much EE, not like I hate your guts or something.
If you are posting in a manor that people cannot read easily then you are not helping. You have to try and condense your points so people will be able to read your point, digest it and respond. One never asks everything at once. It is considerate to pace things out at a speed that can be managed.
if you are trying to contribute something it needs to be in a usefull format. Otherwise I can dump a .wings file to the spring mapers and say here are your features. That will not help the mappers, the file might as well not exist. However, s30-ing the files and placing them in a nice zip file with directories is helpful.
I have been known to write 3-4 page long emails but at the end of the day people will only skim it. You do not help people with all of that. It is only satisfying to you which puts it in the area of self-flattery. QUITE far from helping and it does nothing but make you feel better. Is that helping? no.
I can say I believe you are wrong. It is my opinion.
if you are trying to contribute something it needs to be in a usefull format. Otherwise I can dump a .wings file to the spring mapers and say here are your features. That will not help the mappers, the file might as well not exist. However, s30-ing the files and placing them in a nice zip file with directories is helpful.
I have been known to write 3-4 page long emails but at the end of the day people will only skim it. You do not help people with all of that. It is only satisfying to you which puts it in the area of self-flattery. QUITE far from helping and it does nothing but make you feel better. Is that helping? no.
I can say I believe you are wrong. It is my opinion.
That is very right, needy.
I wonder if we could live without any subs at all, so that ship to ship fight might actually be vaiable.
The things with the subs is, that they are not only formidable ship killers, and have no distinct predator, but they can also kill the harbour, thus fullfilling every water role in one unit, except from transport and shore cleaning.
Remove the subs and water is as much fun as the land battles.
I wonder if we could live without any subs at all, so that ship to ship fight might actually be vaiable.
The things with the subs is, that they are not only formidable ship killers, and have no distinct predator, but they can also kill the harbour, thus fullfilling every water role in one unit, except from transport and shore cleaning.
Remove the subs and water is as much fun as the land battles.