Absolute Annihilation 1.5

Soulless1 · Post by **Soulless1** » 16 Jun 2006, 17:02

I think we're well past arguing the point about metal makers. If you don't like people to have the ability to counterattack after a loss, just go play E&E. Simple as. Can we move on now?

esteroth12 · Post by **esteroth12** » 16 Jun 2006, 19:32

NOiZE wrote:still i think it's a spring bug

someone make a patch

also, how about we make the amphibious complex the "small" lv2, and the advanced shipyard the "big" lv2? then cruisers would be useful, as they are battleships that fit on rivers... you could move the cruiser, AA ship, and the light bombardment cruisers (the ones that just got removed) into the amphib complex

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Jun 2006, 20:08

oh thats another thing I forgot to mention...

For gods sake beef up the amphibs. The suck such hardcore balls it's retarded.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 16 Jun 2006, 20:14

Forboding Angel wrote:oh thats another thing I forgot to mention...

For gods sake beef up the amphibs. The suck such hardcore balls it's retarded.

which ones?

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Jun 2006, 20:19

Caydr wrote:Forboding... um... your ideas seem somewhat unpopular. While I'll still keep this unit speed standardizing thing on my mind (note that arm and core would have different standards, thereby allowing for instance AKs to still outmaneuver PWs), what I'm most interested in is what you liked so much about 1.13. You mentioned that you liked it, but nothing more.

I want to know what made it so good in your opinion. I want this next version of AA to be so good, it's illegal in China. Or at least strictly regulated. I want there to be 13 step programs to help stop playing it - not those 12 step programs, those are for ordinary addictions; the 13th step is to put a bullet hole in your head because you won't recover from the addiction. I want a national crisis. I want riots. I want there to be an AA underground, people who lead double lives, ordinary productive citizens by day, hardcore AA addicts by night. I want a black market. I want Canada to legalize it and there to be a mass-immigration and an underground railroad. Sooo... if you have something to contribute, by all means do so, even if it's unpopular.

And everyone else, let others say their piece without flaming them to death.

Sorry for the double post...

Caydr, the thing that I hate the most is the cumbersome gameplay, however, it's not always cumbersome (Which is jsut wierd). Part of this could be blamed on the maps so keep that in mind.

I really wish that maybe the air transports could be SERIOUSLY beefed so that they can serve a purpose. As it is you only use them for transporting a comm to a high position, across the map, or to commbomb and OCCASIONALLY a bantha or orcone/krog. ATM their usefulness is nil and that is dissappointing.

I'm not real sure that people have understood what I ment by standardizing unit speed. I am referring to the thud, storm and crasher should all go the same speed. Same for lv2 frontline units, the backline stuff has some leeway, but lugars and vehicle flak have a nasty habit of moving to the front, which is really uncool.

That's what I mean by standardization. Not make everything move the same speed, that would be completely retarded. Just vertain units should have the same speed(caydr, I think you understand what I mean by this).

Jumping topic... Instead of neutering the ak/peewee to armored/armed mexes, why not give the level 1 armed mex higher damage an a higher turnrate, so that you have to have a few real attack units to kill them. Unit specific damages lend to dumbness in some cases.

As far as what I liked about 1.13, in 2 words, less bloat. Drex should know exactly what I'm talking about here because he and I agree on this most definately.

@Edit: @NOiZE: All of them... Particularly the torpedo on the gimp.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 16 Jun 2006, 20:25

Forboding Angel wrote:oh thats another thing I forgot to mention...

For gods sake beef up the amphibs. The suck such hardcore balls it's retarded.

Well, fortunately Caydr is taking a page from XTA and beefing up their slope-tolerance, so they'll be more useful. And as for strength: build an Amphib complex and roll out some Shivas. The things are pretty close to a Goliath. No autorepair, but they've got a big rocket as a secondary weapon.

And the gimp's torpedo was never meant as an anti-sub weapon. it's designed so that you can attack undefended targets like UW mexes. Amphibs are supposed to be helpless underwater.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 16 Jun 2006, 20:35

Forboding Angel wrote:I really wish that maybe the air transports could be SERIOUSLY beefed so that they can serve a purpose. As it is you only use them for transporting a comm to a high position, across the map, or to commbomb and OCCASIONALLY a bantha or orcone/krog. ATM their usefulness is nil and that is dissappointing.

On the other hand, they also can't be so tough that they can kidnap an opponent's entire assault force and then blow it up.

I'm not real sure that people have understood what I ment by standardizing unit speed. I am referring to the thud, storm and crasher should all go the same speed. Same for lv2 frontline units, the backline stuff has some leeway, but lugars and vehicle flak have a nasty habit of moving to the front, which is really uncool.

This makes a lot of sense, yes. Basically, units that are supposed to work together (and don't need an increased speed - see Pyro, Zipper) should have the same speed.

(To clarify, I'm not saying that the Pyro/Zipper need a speed buff. I'm saying they're faster than the things they work with for a reason.)

Jumping topic... Instead of neutering the ak/peewee to armored/armed mexes, why not give the level 1 armed mex higher damage an a higher turnrate, so that you have to have a few real attack units to kill them. Unit specific damages lend to dumbness in some cases.

Don't you then get people using them as primary defensive structures?

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 16 Jun 2006, 20:47

turnrate is dependant on metal income => you cannot simply use them as defense.
however ARMED MEXES ARE FINE ATM. they can hold off raiders and get taken out by small groups + are pretty expensive.

PERFECT.

DO NOT BUFF THEM.

Air trans...they are made only for sneak attacks etc on certain maps. THIS IS NOT E&E. Atlas's are only for certain uses not for ferrying units everywhere or anything.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:16

Min3mat wrote:turnrate is dependant on metal income => you cannot simply use them as defense.
however ARMED MEXES ARE FINE ATM. they can hold off raiders and get taken out by small groups + are pretty expensive.

PERFECT.

DO NOT BUFF THEM.

Air trans...they are made only for sneak attacks etc on certain maps. THIS IS NOT E&E. Atlas's are only for certain uses not for ferrying units everywhere or anything.

Oh ok, pardon me, you like the fact that atlas' have 1 use in 20 games. Ok well thats fine, but then there isn't any point to having them in the game in the first place.

First of all, taking away specific damages from armed mexes would make them much more vulnerable, because scouts can actually kill them. It's not like that have huge range or anything.

Are you always this shortsighted? Methinks yes.

Min3mat wrote:Air trans...they are made only for sneak attacks etc on certain maps. THIS IS NOT E&E. Atlas's are only for certain uses not for ferrying units everywhere or anything.

You're an idiot, personal opinion. Btw, you also just contradicted yourself.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:27

L1 air transports are basically for moving constructors around or quickly moving a group of whatever from point A to point B, when there's no risk of interception.

L2 air transports have probably been changed since the last time you played, Forboding. They're much more like you suggest - affordable, moderate HP, and capable of making combat landings to a certain extent because of good maneuverability and speed. Oh, and thanks to a bu... I mean.. um... quantum-tunneling technology, they are capable of moving multiple units at once.

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:28

I don't think you can pick up enemy units anymore so kidnapping an enemy force shouldn't be a big issue.

One thing to remember is some people use air transports to Roach bomb. If you give those babies too much armour they would absolutely rule Gods of War and other similar maps.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:28

(i found it, its mine!)

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:32

Anyone used Leejens much? What I intended them for is a sort of cheap recon unit... like, build 5 of them and you'll surely be able to get a peek at your enemy's frontline defenses. Now there's a thread about them being abusable... any thoughts? This unit was just a random idea I got. If it's causing problems, I'll axe it.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:37

Caydr wrote:L1 air transports are basically for moving constructors around or quickly moving a group of whatever from point A to point B, when there's no risk of interception.

L2 air transports have probably been changed since the last time you played, Forboding. They're much more like you suggest - affordable, moderate HP, and capable of making combat landings to a certain extent because of good maneuverability and speed. Oh, and thanks to a bu... I mean.. um... quantum-tunneling technology, they are capable of moving multiple units at once.

Well making them cheaper accomplishes what I was talking about. I do think they could stand a speed boost though.

I like the lv2 changes you just talked about. I havn't used them in quite some time so I never noticed

BTW I have played AA recently :D Just not often. Most of the time I entertain myself with ak farms. Amazing how many ak's you can build in a short period of time with 12 lv1 factories. Hehehe.

I havn't really used leejuns. They seemed to be a bit redundant. However, I never checked their LOS so they just might be ub3r useful and I don't realize it

Edit: Does anyone else find mercurys/screamers a bit overbearing? Just seems like not such a great idea to me. I understand why they are there, however isn't there something else that can be done besides having the omgwtfpwnuberaaweaponvsairwtf?

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:38

Caydr wrote:Anyone used Leejens much? What I intended them for is a sort of cheap recon unit... like, build 5 of them and you'll surely be able to get a peek at your enemy's frontline defenses. Now there's a thread about them being abusable... any thoughts? This unit was just a random idea I got. If it's causing problems, I'll axe it.

But why, how could they be abusable?

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:39

I dont see anything wrong with the atlas or l2 transports, you can combat drop with an atlas if you can find a way through aa, it worked well for me on riverdale the otherday.
Also, with the atlas being cheap you can quickly create pickup/dropzones within your own territory to ferry slow units like the zues to the front lines, then you have have l2 air that can make it through areas that have moderate aa and drop your combat units behind enemy lines
I dont see why you think theyre a problem FA.
Seriously beefing them as you suggest would be a bad idea, do you really want a transport that can fly right through loads of aa into the back of a base and drop units?

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:39

Forboding Angel Wrote:

First of all, taking away specific damages from armed mexes would make them much more vulnerable

Already done i thought..

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:46

BigSteve wrote:Seriously beefing them as you suggest would be a bad idea, do you really want a transport that can fly right through loads of aa into the back of a base and drop units?

Oh no not at all. You misunderstand me. When I say beefing, I'm talking able to withstand a decent amout of missle tower fire. Not over the top by any means.

At some point you're jsut an idiot for trying to send transports through a heavy AA area. Just them not dying in 3/4 missle tower shots would be nice. Just enough time to drop 1 unit and die. <- now don't take this the wrong way either, I'm talking within reason here lol.

@ cabbage: nope, ak's do fuckall to exploiters and its really quite uncool imo. THings like unit specific damage of scouts is just dumb. It would be more useful to give them a higher refire rate or higher damage and faster turnrate. That way, you must be dedicated to taking it out cause 3-5 ak's or peewees probably isn't going to cut it.

I sent 20 ak's at a lv1 exploiter the other day and lost all my ak's with hardly any noticeable damage to the expoiter. That was really, really, annoying.

Soulless1 · Post by **Soulless1** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:48

Caydr wrote:Anyone used Leejens much? What I intended them for is a sort of cheap recon unit... like, build 5 of them and you'll surely be able to get a peek at your enemy's frontline defenses. Now there's a thread about them being abusable... any thoughts? This unit was just a random idea I got. If it's causing problems, I'll axe it.

LOL, that thread was just a joke heh

Note the hippy writing in the first screenshot

i don't think it's physically possible for a unit with no offensive capability to be overpowered

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 16 Jun 2006, 21:50

transports are fine.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 1.5