Heard of it, but never played it.
My mod has more units though, it will probably end up with a bit less than 50 for each side, so a total of a bit less than 100. I'm trying to make each unit fufill many different roles.
Some thoughts why spring isnt feeling as alive as TA
Moderator: Moderators
-
SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Play nanoblobs?FizWizz wrote:Anybody remember ThunderBallz for OTA? I could almost count all the units on my two hands.Lindir The Green wrote:I am really annoyed by the unit bloat of AA, XTA, and even OTA.
And so, for a few months now, I've been working on a minimalistic, fast paced mod, with TA units. It actually was originally designed to bring the strategy of TA with the speed and intensity of Starcraft, which used to be my favorite game. Still trying to figure out how to differentiate the sides...
NTai buildtree development is eating up all of my time though, because it is so much more satisfying to make a good AI than to make a mod that nobody but me will play.
Unit "bloat" is IMO one of the things that makes those mods so popular in spring today. You can ligitimately use every unit for something or another, and many people do... More units then you need is more of a developmental problem then a game problem, the sheer unit number an RTS game has is a huge selling point.
I think its part of the beauty of Spring <and the whole TA paradigm> that such different types of mods can exist in the first place.
Sometimes I enjoy playing with several hundred units per side, with a 1500 unit limit on an Epic-scale map. Sometimes I want a by-the-skin-foyur-teeth tactical game. Sometimes I want something in between...
What you have now is all these different ranges of mods existing - lots of units/large scale, smaller, rapid pace, as well as themes and universes from Star Wars to WWII
The reaso nit doesnt feel 'alive' is partly also due to the fact that at any given time, there's only a few players playing any given mod (aside from AA), meaning that the full 'experience' of supercilious tendencies isn't available to the same degree as it was in OTA (I could play massive AI battles in OTA; Spring AIs are still very buggy and in their infancy - and please, no advertisements) and if online is only way to have fun games, then its not going to work out well with such a small community.
Sometimes I enjoy playing with several hundred units per side, with a 1500 unit limit on an Epic-scale map. Sometimes I want a by-the-skin-foyur-teeth tactical game. Sometimes I want something in between...
What you have now is all these different ranges of mods existing - lots of units/large scale, smaller, rapid pace, as well as themes and universes from Star Wars to WWII
The reaso nit doesnt feel 'alive' is partly also due to the fact that at any given time, there's only a few players playing any given mod (aside from AA), meaning that the full 'experience' of supercilious tendencies isn't available to the same degree as it was in OTA (I could play massive AI battles in OTA; Spring AIs are still very buggy and in their infancy - and please, no advertisements) and if online is only way to have fun games, then its not going to work out well with such a small community.
The hell? Gundam annihilation is ever growing I just started adding units to take advantage of spring. I will continue to do this. With each release of spring I look long and hard at it to see if I CAN add something. I know fang is doing the same with EE. So do not count the moders out!IMSabbel wrote: Not to mention that nobody seems to want to develope a mod that has still headroom for further expansion. Its always the ------- sink or nothing, it seems.
(well, besides nanoblobs. But that doesnt really count)
-
Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
That's a good point, DM.
Flames aside, I don't particularly enjoy AA, but when I log onto the lobby to find a game with something else, chances are 95% of all-games on-going are AA, and the ones that aren't AA are generally a small group of players with a passworded channel.
AA's success in itself doesn't bother me; it is almost inevitable that a single mod would become the favourite, and AA had all the things most people wanted from a mod.
The effect of AA, however, is such that the mod itself is preventative to enter, and at the same time, it muscles other mods into obscurity, so that it isn't worth becoming profficient at them, because you'd be unlikely to find a game.
Flames aside, I don't particularly enjoy AA, but when I log onto the lobby to find a game with something else, chances are 95% of all-games on-going are AA, and the ones that aren't AA are generally a small group of players with a passworded channel.
AA's success in itself doesn't bother me; it is almost inevitable that a single mod would become the favourite, and AA had all the things most people wanted from a mod.
The effect of AA, however, is such that the mod itself is preventative to enter, and at the same time, it muscles other mods into obscurity, so that it isn't worth becoming profficient at them, because you'd be unlikely to find a game.
think its totally a waste of time to answer sabbel, but.
i point out that you can add units to mods.
If you take the bother to see how mod system works.
you realize inmediatly, that you can make a mod, based on an existing mod.
what does that mean?
well just add the unit in question to your "extension" of the mod.
if its based in aa (for example) you and who plays this "addition" , only need to download a few kbs, and you are ready to test/play/have fun.
example? take the hover modification for aa as an example.
times being back with supcom?, pff..
you are just supcom propaganda kid sabbel.
on a sidenote, completelly agree to jcnosen about a simple mod.
i point out that you can add units to mods.
If you take the bother to see how mod system works.
you realize inmediatly, that you can make a mod, based on an existing mod.
what does that mean?
well just add the unit in question to your "extension" of the mod.
if its based in aa (for example) you and who plays this "addition" , only need to download a few kbs, and you are ready to test/play/have fun.
example? take the hover modification for aa as an example.
times being back with supcom?, pff..
you are just supcom propaganda kid sabbel.
on a sidenote, completelly agree to jcnosen about a simple mod.
Yeah right. Because creating a new mod just for adding a single unit is SUCH an elegant way to get playing... with anybody besides myself.mongus wrote:think its totally a waste of time to answer sabbel, but.
...
you are just supcom propaganda kid sabbel.
Because is SO easy to get people hopping onto another mod they dont know...
Did you read ANYTHING i wrote, smartass? About what the whole problem is about?
About the second thing: I was very sceptical of supreme commander half a year ago, but with every month, i see the innovation on one side and an old-boys club developing on the other (with the "we are better because we are" mentality and plenty of blindeness towards critique.). Just guess which side belongs where?
I have to disagree. At all times there are at least 30 games going on in the Spring lobby, and as many as 60 during peak weekend times. I admit, I've never used phoenix works or whatever the current matchmaking system is called. (I thought one just lost its database and shut down? GBL? or am I reversed?) But I doubt that there's a comparable amount of activity still to be found.
About AA, I agree with you there. I'm working to bring the mod into a state where it will be more approachable by OTA players. For instance, an arm tank (non-cavedog) which many felt was unneeded will be axed with the next version, and the Reaper will be set back to being a battle tank with regular guns.
If you have any specific suggestions what you'd like to see done, by all means bring them to the AA thread. Others might ridicule you if your ideas don't mesh with their ideas, but I take everything posted into consideration.
About AA, I agree with you there. I'm working to bring the mod into a state where it will be more approachable by OTA players. For instance, an arm tank (non-cavedog) which many felt was unneeded will be axed with the next version, and the Reaper will be set back to being a battle tank with regular guns.
If you have any specific suggestions what you'd like to see done, by all means bring them to the AA thread. Others might ridicule you if your ideas don't mesh with their ideas, but I take everything posted into consideration.
This sincerely was not my intention. Even now I'm trying to find ways to encourage more mod-diversity, such as my idea for a unified mod package.Warlord Zsinj wrote:The effect of AA, however, is such that the mod itself is preventative to enter, and at the same time, it muscles other mods into obscurity, so that it isn't worth becoming profficient at them, because you'd be unlikely to find a game.
I don't think anyone is blaming you, Cyder. Its a good mod. And that unified thingy doodad looks like its got some potential (If you can get it to, well, you know. Work). I actually don't see whats so hard about taking the map downloder thing and putting mods on it. But there is probably something complicated and weird about it.
As to Spring not feeling alive. Bull, I say, Bull. Playing it is as fun as ever, as is looking around. The mods are growing. Kind of. And I see a few new projects on the horizon
Project 2, from Aurgh
G.E.M, from Cydar
Battle tech (I hopte to god), from...those Battle tech people?
Axis and Allys (It looks neat) from those...AA people?
The only mods that aren't growing are either A) Finished (Or near to it). Or B) The mod builders are well, you know. Busy. With...life things.
As to Spring not feeling alive. Bull, I say, Bull. Playing it is as fun as ever, as is looking around. The mods are growing. Kind of. And I see a few new projects on the horizon
Project 2, from Aurgh
G.E.M, from Cydar
Battle tech (I hopte to god), from...those Battle tech people?
Axis and Allys (It looks neat) from those...AA people?
The only mods that aren't growing are either A) Finished (Or near to it). Or B) The mod builders are well, you know. Busy. With...life things.
-
Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
-
Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
-
Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
-
Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Oh, I wasn't blaming you at all Caydr. If it wasn't AA, it would be another mod. Sure, I'd love for that mod to be SWS ( 
), but the fact of the matter is that it is AATA.
Maybe it is worth taking some lobby oriented steps by having a "mod of the week" or something, where all time spent in that particular mod counts as double towards ranks, etc, so that we can encourage people to try different mods.
The problem, I think, is that people won't even try other mods, because they won't get a game.
), but the fact of the matter is that it is AATA.Maybe it is worth taking some lobby oriented steps by having a "mod of the week" or something, where all time spent in that particular mod counts as double towards ranks, etc, so that we can encourage people to try different mods.
The problem, I think, is that people won't even try other mods, because they won't get a game.
After reading almost all the thread I had to say something, but I will not be able to answer anything specific. So:
I never had chance to play TA online or with other people. I knew probably one or two other people that had it, and they didn't liked it. I didn't had a modem and I wouldn't afford to stay too long on the phone at that time. So I loved the game, and always I nominated TA as the RTS I liked most (before of finding out spring that is )
But I certanly feel that spring is 'alive'. After such a long time of not playing the game (computer changed, other 'real life' issues) and explaining people why I loved a game that no one has heard of, it was great to rediscover the spirit of TA here.
Probably I am not the kind of players that know every weapon and armor by heart (this was one of the things I didn't liked at Starcraft - many people knew too many numbers). I like changing strategies and I have lots of fun when I play. And I observed that in many cases the economy and knowing all the shortcuts counts a lot. (I tried a new mod with someone who didn't played spring, and I won because I knew stuff like that)
So to sum up, thanks to anybody that is contributing and developing spring, you are doing a great job! (it is not the case in this thread, but too many times I see in the forum that people are complaining and doing nothing really hard)
I doo agree with the ideas that were posted here like: lack of downloading mod, lack of automatic download of different units, no regular releases, lack of single player campaign.
And what I think it is lacking and would make a huge difference: some way of knowing in game what kind of weapons a unit fires. At least if it will fire air/ground, or ground/underwater or stuff like that. (I would also love linux-windows multiplayer compatibility).
But this is a free game engine. It is hard to contribute when you have a job . (I know from experience :D - I did some patches to linux lobby but mostly things I could do in 2-3 days - to my shame I wasn't able to make constant development)
I never had chance to play TA online or with other people. I knew probably one or two other people that had it, and they didn't liked it. I didn't had a modem and I wouldn't afford to stay too long on the phone at that time. So I loved the game, and always I nominated TA as the RTS I liked most (before of finding out spring that is
)But I certanly feel that spring is 'alive'. After such a long time of not playing the game (computer changed, other 'real life' issues) and explaining people why I loved a game that no one has heard of, it was great to rediscover the spirit of TA here.
Probably I am not the kind of players that know every weapon and armor by heart (this was one of the things I didn't liked at Starcraft - many people knew too many numbers). I like changing strategies and I have lots of fun when I play. And I observed that in many cases the economy and knowing all the shortcuts counts a lot. (I tried a new mod with someone who didn't played spring, and I won because I knew stuff like that)
So to sum up, thanks to anybody that is contributing and developing spring, you are doing a great job! (it is not the case in this thread, but too many times I see in the forum that people are complaining and doing nothing really hard)
I doo agree with the ideas that were posted here like: lack of downloading mod, lack of automatic download of different units, no regular releases, lack of single player campaign.
And what I think it is lacking and would make a huge difference: some way of knowing in game what kind of weapons a unit fires. At least if it will fire air/ground, or ground/underwater or stuff like that. (I would also love linux-windows multiplayer compatibility).
But this is a free game engine. It is hard to contribute when you have a job . (I know from experience :D - I did some patches to linux lobby but mostly things I could do in 2-3 days - to my shame I wasn't able to make constant development)
to show you my smartassness i will have to answer to you.
You are trying to compare TA and Spring.
The base of your complain is that TA had a more solid base, as in "common ground".
You are saying such a common ground is missing in Spring.
Also, you are noting that you "cannot" add units, to "spice up" the gameplay, in such an easy way as you could in TA.
Finally you put the most sucking point in your post, adding that Supreme commander will save you and take back those old times.
Well, a few points.
THERE IS A COMON BASE IN SPRING, THAT HAS BEEN EVOLVING SINCE ITS FIRST BETA RELEASE.
Not many changes, so it makes good "base" for the game, despite one unit addition.
So, if you were playing it since the release, you should now perfectly know its balance, and old TA players should be able to learn it without hassle, as it its based in TA:CC.
The fact that speedmetal is the most played map ever responds to, the fact that most players are newcomers, newbs, are just discovering the game.
Thus, speedmetal allows them to do that as you said, discover the units.
It a real shame that you dont learn about anything else in speedmetal, as you can play it million times and you will still totally suck at any other map.
Also, if we dont have so many new/cool units, its beacuse of:
1 the old unit makers are dead.
as new unit makers must appear, you must take into account the next
2 Unit making learning curve is not fast.
3 The new format needs learning too.
Anyhow, if you would like to add units, as fast and easy as in TA, well spring allows you to do that even better, and reliable.
as i already explained it to you.
If you want to test units, you can build a mod addition in NO TIME, and share it with those people you want to test stuff with, just by downloading a few kb.
About the nosense about achievements in one side and another and "we are better" stuff... well you are just a moron, as spring is not better, its open source, and most important, nobody is in that stance of "we are better" than the other, but more in trying to develop.
ending up your post thinking supcom will alleviate all your troubles, is just sad.
You are trying to compare TA and Spring.
The base of your complain is that TA had a more solid base, as in "common ground".
You are saying such a common ground is missing in Spring.
Also, you are noting that you "cannot" add units, to "spice up" the gameplay, in such an easy way as you could in TA.
Finally you put the most sucking point in your post, adding that Supreme commander will save you and take back those old times.
Well, a few points.
THERE IS A COMON BASE IN SPRING, THAT HAS BEEN EVOLVING SINCE ITS FIRST BETA RELEASE.
Not many changes, so it makes good "base" for the game, despite one unit addition.
So, if you were playing it since the release, you should now perfectly know its balance, and old TA players should be able to learn it without hassle, as it its based in TA:CC.
The fact that speedmetal is the most played map ever responds to, the fact that most players are newcomers, newbs, are just discovering the game.
Thus, speedmetal allows them to do that as you said, discover the units.
It a real shame that you dont learn about anything else in speedmetal, as you can play it million times and you will still totally suck at any other map.
Also, if we dont have so many new/cool units, its beacuse of:
1 the old unit makers are dead.
as new unit makers must appear, you must take into account the next
2 Unit making learning curve is not fast.
3 The new format needs learning too.
Anyhow, if you would like to add units, as fast and easy as in TA, well spring allows you to do that even better, and reliable.
as i already explained it to you.
If you want to test units, you can build a mod addition in NO TIME, and share it with those people you want to test stuff with, just by downloading a few kb.
About the nosense about achievements in one side and another and "we are better" stuff... well you are just a moron, as spring is not better, its open source, and most important, nobody is in that stance of "we are better" than the other, but more in trying to develop.
ending up your post thinking supcom will alleviate all your troubles, is just sad.
-
Tim Blokdijk
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18