Absolute Annihilation 1.5

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 06 Jun 2006, 04:11

Min3mat wrote:Pitbulls are fine, yet they get a buff too

Compared to an HLT: less DPS, larger footprint, less HP, stealthy and cloakable, longer range, about a 20% higher cost across the board.

Compared to a Viper: less DPS, larger footprint, less HP, stealthy and cloakable, less range, about a 10% lower cost.

That's fine? What balance elements am I missing?

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 06 Jun 2006, 05:08

min3mat Wrote:

Hell with the spring bugs atm you can even slowly pwn SUBS.

Actually, i pwned some levis and an entire underwater economy with phoenixes a bit earlier, they worked pretty well - just have to force fire. ^^

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 06 Jun 2006, 08:17

Min3mat wrote:Pitbulls are fine, yet they get a buff too :\

Oh no, no, no, no, no.
Min3Mat, how many times has ve discussed thisd already? and how many times have you agreed.
Viper>HLT>pitbull.
"Pitbull are hard to kill". Yes they are
"Pitbull are stealhy!" Yes they are
That doesn't mean they aren't suppose to do any DMG! Two gators could pass this LVL 2 defence structure when only losing one.
It's a LVL 2 defence unit dammit, you need at least 6 of them to stop a liitle attack. (only when backed up with an anni).
Tell me something a viper cannot do!*

*in terms of realistic thinking, one viper could indeed not kill 12 gollies

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:00

Zenka wrote:
Min3mat wrote:Pitbulls are fine, yet they get a buff too :\
Oh no, no, no, no, no.
Min3Mat, how many times has ve discussed thisd already? and how many times have you agreed.
Viper>HLT>pitbull.
"Pitbull are hard to kill". Yes they are
"Pitbull are stealhy!" Yes they are
That doesn't mean they aren't suppose to do any DMG! Two gators could pass this LVL 2 defence structure when only losing one.
It's a LVL 2 defence unit dammit, you need at least 6 of them to stop a liitle attack. (only when backed up with an anni).
Tell me something a viper cannot do!*

*in terms of realistic thinking, one viper could indeed not kill 12 gollies

Build two or three DDMs. Build a line of Vipers in front of them. Watch the pwnage begin. I think the Pitbull could do with a boost, and the Viper size increase would work well enough.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 06 Jun 2006, 12:38

Min3mat wrote:
Is it as unbalanced as it seems?
Yup

besides...emp bombers man...also liches to an extent...
LOL liches suck my balls
its not unbalenced at all if you take the emp bombers into acount I'd say 7 pheonixes and 3 emps would do more then 10 hurricanes, especially in the defence department.
I wouldn't even mind if the pheonix and hurricane were equal but it would leave core lvl2air completely barren.
Har de fracking Har. W00T EMP BOMBERS ARE LIEK AMAZINGS THEY PWNZ LIEK...LIEK...THE STICK PWNZ TEH FIRE.
Phoenix is fine. Hurricane is insanely OP. Solution? make the hurricane roughly equal to the Phoenix, at least balance will be better then!
Barren CORE t2 Air...ever heard of the Krow...
Tell you what. Start playing the mod. At a decent level (THIS MEANS LIKE NOES SPEEDY METALZ OH NOEZ!) Then. Slowly formulate a opinion, back it up with hours of ingame time and experience. Then give it to Caydr and watch him throw it in your FACE. Like what the >.< >.< >.< is going to do to vipers... -.- Pitbulls are fine, yet they get a buff too :\ >.< >.< >.<

T2 Bombers are fine. No really. Watch your back because i am abusing CORE hardcore styley from here on. Watch your antibomber and antiswarm turrets get either toasted or avioded for the cost of a few scouts. Watch armies destroyed by hurricanes MASSIVE AoE and damage. Watch Mechs get PWNT by hurricanes. Defenses. AA. Commanders. Hell with the spring bugs atm you can even slowly pwn SUBS.

I intend to enjoy this imbalance >=D

EMP bombers do rock, and they'll even stun 5 seconds longer in the next version, and Krows are horrid they're worse at almost everything than rapiers exept killing comms and getting past lines with medium air defence they're horrible for defence and can get shot by most anything because of their speed/size.
Hurricanes have been like this for a long time and since you're only complaining about it now why don't you go fucking play against people who use air for something other then brawlers more often and try and fucking defend against it instead of making useless posts looking for balence taking only 2 units into account.
Besides your freaking solution is to buff pheonixes anyway so dont act so worried that its an imbalence in regards to anti air.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 06 Jun 2006, 14:34

personally i don't like the all pwning t2 defense structure idea, personally as they are built by the consul they are just a stand in. but meh, fair play i can see your point. the pibull could do with a boost. but the viper? there is no possible argument to increase the power of the viper, even with the small increase in footprint!

Besides your freaking solution is to buff pheonixes anyway so dont act so worried that its an imbalence in regards to anti air.

READ MY FUCKING POST DUMBASS BURN IN HELL. Make the HURRICANE roughly EQUAL to the PHOENIX that is a NERF of the HURRICANE with NO CHANGE to the HURRICANE.

oh and your use air to defend against hurricanes? they have a moderately powerful AA gun + a huge chunk of health. almost nothing can stop them dropping their immense payload

This has only just come to my attention because i used to play ARM

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 06 Jun 2006, 14:46

Remember that the pitbull has a big advantage in that it's ballistic. There are a lot of times when a pitbull can hit targets in a wreckage field that normally only arty units can shoot into/out of.

Day · Post by **Day** » 06 Jun 2006, 14:49

mat, ever tried the long range AA towers? why work pretty well
and i havent seen hurricanes take down an antibomber turret yet

(maybe because it wasnt targetted but meh)

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 06 Jun 2006, 15:14

only use them if theres a fighter patrol near my front or scouts are entering a important area. or on small maps (they can shoot straight at the aircraft whilst its under construction and damage the plant too ^^)

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 06 Jun 2006, 15:31

mat, that's probably because of a missed ; on the current version in the advsam weapon. In next version they should have a slight semi-vertical launch thing before going to their target.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I did not mean to buff vipers, I meant to make the two units roughly equal, both of them slightly more DPS (10-15%) than an HLT while a) closing to avoid artillery/nuke/whatever damage b) having 15% or so longer range. Also adjust their costs and whatever, since I know they are not quite right when compared with HLTs.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 06 Jun 2006, 16:01

I suggest stopping AA discussion here, and move it to the AA site forums.

Or we should get subforums here....

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 06 Jun 2006, 16:34

OK, thats a nice change Caydr.
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/in ... pic=107890
Hurricanes ARE OP. 300 metal for utter pwn!

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 06 Jun 2006, 16:40

the also cost like 145000 energy

and a crapload of buildtime

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 06 Jun 2006, 16:43

if you have geos and cost efficient wind who cares bout energy?
and BT? late game you have plenty (so its COMPLETELY OP lategame) and early on you can conspam/nanotowers.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 06 Jun 2006, 16:46

i care about energy, even late game, everybit excess of energy i have i want to get it turned over into metal!

Soulless1 · Post by **Soulless1** » 06 Jun 2006, 16:47

Min3mat wrote:personally i don't like the all pwning t2 defense structure idea, personally as they are built by the consul they are just a stand in. but meh, fair play i can see your point. the pibull could do with a boost. but the viper? there is no possible argument to increase the power of the viper, even with the small increase in footprint!
Besides your freaking solution is to buff pheonixes anyway so dont act so worried that its an imbalence in regards to anti air.
READ MY FUCKING POST DUMBASS BURN IN HELL. Make the HURRICANE roughly EQUAL to the PHOENIX that is a NERF of the HURRICANE with NO CHANGE to the HURRICANE.

oh and your use air to defend against hurricanes? they have a moderately powerful AA gun + a huge chunk of health. almost nothing can stop them dropping their immense payload

This has only just come to my attention because i used to play ARM

1. You talk like a child. Your opinion is worth nothing.

2. Again, hurricanes don't have an AA gun IIRC. Phoenixes do.

3. 'almost nothing can stop them dropping their immense payload' except for anti bomber turrets, flak, and long range AA towers. Oh, and fighters.
...sooo...no counters then...

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 06 Jun 2006, 17:41

soulles they do have an AA missile turret and lvl1 fighters don't touch em because of that, but long range AA, lvl2 fighters and anti bomber turrets do plenty.

Soulless1 · Post by **Soulless1** » 06 Jun 2006, 17:45

in which case...I suppose the core-ish thing to do would be to keep the large numbers of bombs and remove the AA missile launcher

I don't care cos I didn't think they had one...

Of course, that's only if they actually need nerfing...and most people on here other than min3mat seem to think they're fine...

As you pointed out, level 2 fighters, anti-bomber turrets, flak and long range AA launchers do just fine against them.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 06 Jun 2006, 18:00

and most people like soulless have no idea of the facts and are unable to form a good opinion because of it.
Hurricanes don't have a AA turret...lol
Long range AA...don't make me laugh, as i said that is to stop scouts, and stop fighters patrolling near your base, conventional AA is far more effective. I mean what happens if 2 Big AA Turret Thingies fire at the same hurricane? or what if your opponents sees the massive explosion and runs a few scouts around, both finding the turrets AND wasting the turrets ammo. Whilst they reload 2 Hurricanes (600 metal) per turret should be fine. Hurricanes immene payload (and it IS immense) is all but unstoppable. 4 hurricanes, one frontline kbot base protected by fighters / AA. The bombers will take it out. Nothing stops them unless you put your critical structures way deep in your base and have several layers of AA (most effective is a pulveriser/chainsaw combo) all diffuse and difficult for the bombers to target. Then the hurricanes take out any front line anti ground defenses you have. Then you get PWNT. (Stick ground defenses in front of AA, AA wont kill hurricanes before they unleash their bombs. Stick them behind and the ground units will PWN them and the hurricanes have a free shot at your base. Mix them, adn the Hurricanes will STILL be able to take ou the anti ground defenses and then its wide open.)
HURRICANES NEED A NERF. PEOPLE NEED TO CHECK FACTS BEFORE POSTING

what you said wrote: 1. You talk like a child. Your opinion is worth nothing.

what you should have said wrote: 1. You talk like a child, because you are frustrated at every noob complaining and being completely wrong. My opinion is worth nothing because i think that Phoenixs have a AA turret and Hurricanes don't. I have never faced a decent player at this game and bow to your awesomeness.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 06 Jun 2006, 18:31

i made some testing.

a hurricanes metal cost = 313
a phenoix metal cost = 229

(note: this is modweb 2 vers ago, don't no changes to cost as i know of?)

that means you get 4 hurricanes for the same price as 6 phenoixs.

I tried em (4 hurricanes and 6 phenoixes) agsint a krogtaar each on CC remake.

note: Krogtaar has 20 000 hp.

the hurricanes took 4 runs to take it out.

the phenoixes took 8.

I agree with min, the hurricanes could just some nerfing to even out the gap. I also think it's not only his problem for expressing himself poorly, it's your problem since YOU seem to listen poorly.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 1.5

Pitbull