NTai XE10.1b

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 01 Jun 2006, 19:57

I removed the entire NTai folder and everything related to it, I also turned exceptions on and off. When it's off, the game still crashes after the 3 seconds, when the AIs are being initiated, but then the error report is being created instead of the alert box.

I'll try a fresh install now without any extra mods/dlls or whatsoever.

I tried the old one again and it seems to work with XTAv6, but refuses to do build. Does it have something to do with the maps? I tried land based and non metal maps so far.

EDIT:
Same results with a fresh install, deleted the mod profiles and dll before installing etc. Tried running it from a NTFS partition, no luck. Using SingleSP or the lobby client made no difference at all.

AF · Post by AF » 01 Jun 2006, 20:27

Aha!

You never said it was right at the beginning!! That explains it somewhat.

XE8 had exception handling everywhere exept for the InitAI function which meant it could crash at the very very beginning but nowhere else.

That's fixed in XE8.1

I'm guessing I should do 2 releases of XE8.1 one with current buildtrees and another with updated when they are done, Lindir has decided to redo all his buildtree from scratch, and although I've had people coem and go sayign they're making an AA buildtree none have ever sent me anything, which is a shame as a 5 minute work in progress would be better than an empty folder or an abstract buildtree......

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 01 Jun 2006, 21:03

Ah. Well I guess I didn't :)
What's causing the crashes anyway?

Nevermind, I'll use the old one instead until the updated is finished. Are the new profiles in XE8 compatible to older versions? If so, copying the EE and XTAPE folders and learn files might make the older NTai work with some mods.

AF · Post by AF » 01 Jun 2006, 21:10

XE8 buildtrees work with XE4/5/6/7/7.5

Only a lot of new tags are ignored so they dont work nearly aswell.

Erom · Post by **Erom** » 01 Jun 2006, 21:34

Here is an interesting bug for you AF!

Playing multiple mods (XTA v6, v0.66, current AA) NTai sometimes completely locks up Spring. No crash, just frozen. This only happens when NTai is running, not online or with AAi, so I think it is something with NTai (or, of course, how NTai is interacting with my computer).

But here is the interesting thing- I run a dual core system. When Spring locks up, I force quit and everything is good... except that one core is locked at 100% use, while the other core keeps my computer running. Only a reboot of my computer seems to recover it.

Let me know what other information you would like, I'll try to get it too you.

EDIT: Current AA, not AAI. Too many acronyms, I got confused.

AF · Post by AF » 02 Jun 2006, 11:54

mwha?!?!?

I experienced this bug for myself but that was in XE8.1 and all the data indicated ti occurred as soon as the new targeting system started, a system not present in 8.0. The problem disappeared when i switched back to the XE8 targeting algorithm.

However send em an email and I'll send you XE8.1 RC4.5 and we'll see what the logs say about it and find out the cause...

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 02 Jun 2006, 15:06

AF wrote:I'm guessing I should do 2 releases of XE8.1 one with current buildtrees and another with updated when they are done, Lindir has decided to redo all his buildtree from scratch, and although I've had people coem and go sayign they're making an AA buildtree none have ever sent me anything, which is a shame as a 5 minute work in progress would be better than an empty folder or an abstract buildtree......

I think that would work, because the current buildtree I have is SO much better than the one that came with XE8.

Wait until tomorrow though, so I can send you the latest buildtree tonight.

AF · Post by AF » 02 Jun 2006, 20:04

Anybody at all who made or even just experimented with making a buildtree, regardless of wether it's good or not, please upload to FU and pm me the link, I know many have started on buildtrees, wether you've finished ro nto can I have copies???

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 02 Jun 2006, 23:28

AF: Tiny ETA AI bug report. Issuing a unit an order it can't complete crashes the game. The most obvious case is when a defensive structure is given an order to attack something outside its range. (Or possibly right on the edge of its range) I suspect you've got a divide by zero somewhere in your code.

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 03 Jun 2006, 01:19

I sent AF the most recent buildtree, so expect a release soon.

edit: Ooh, AF, I have a question.

If NTai is told to build a mex, and the only patches are in enemy territory, will it send construction units to their doom? Because if it does, it shouldn't.

AF · Post by AF » 03 Jun 2006, 12:30

I have code to prevent that btu wether it works or not is an answer you'll ahve to give.

I'll look into ETA ai again

AF · Post by AF » 03 Jun 2006, 16:35

ETA ai fixed.

Also for estimating time till completion of building projects I have 2 methods.

Count all the builders aiming their nanolathes at a certain area (the under construction item) to get an accurate result but it's slooooow and could lag the game slightly...

The second option si an idea I have, aka generate a speed at which the hp increases and use that to estimate how much time left, which would be accurate for the moment, though needs experimenting with, and would eba lto quicker, what doy uo all think?

Also I need the SkyWrite class filling in, I need every letter of the alphabet, I currently have 1234567890ABCDEFGIS, I need the other letters in capitals and the following ./?\%+=-*. i aint bothered about lowercase letters, the current letters are hurridly done so as long as they can be recognised it's ok. Some fo the ones veylon did might need redoing. Work on the version in the unitname groupAI as it'll make use of the biggest variety of letters. I think i did a U and a V too I cant remember......

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 03 Jun 2006, 16:54

AF wrote:The second option si an idea I have, aka generate a speed at which the hp increases and use that to estimate how much time left, which would be accurate for the moment, though needs experimenting with, and would eba lto quicker, what doy uo all think?

This will probably be better all around. The math's fairly simple, too. You just need two HP values, the amount of time between them, and the total final HP.

Where can the fixed ETA AI be found?

AF · Post by AF » 03 Jun 2006, 17:13

On ym hardrive.

Lindir says he has gotten as far as he thinks he can get with his buildtree and has asked for 2 extra things and I've implemented them and told him of another problem so a final final buildtree for XTA is nearing and thus an XE8.1 release.

Nobody has sent me any buildtrees for any other mods though, finished or unfinished......

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 03 Jun 2006, 21:38

No, as far as I could get by last night!

I'll no doubt be much farther tonight. I'll just keep getting farther and farther until I get bored. That will be at least 4 months from now.

But you need to release at some time, so you might as well release now. Or tomorrow, when you have an even better buildtree. Or the next day, with an even better one... ect.

Your call.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 04 Jun 2006, 00:05

What's involved in making BuildTrees? Do you have any documentation for what's necessary? I might take a shot at doing one for AA.

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 04 Jun 2006, 00:21

The above question has been asked several times this thread.

me wrote:Yeah... I'm, like, really bad at explaining stuff...

If you have a specific question, I can probably answer it, but if you want a general tutorial the best option would be to poke AF for some documentation. \\ actually, there is some now.

I'll get you started though:

The first, and longest step, is to modify the scouters and attackers list in mod.txt to include every mobile unit in AA.

If a unit is in both lists, it (theoretically) should behave as a search and destroy unit.

If you are confused by all the armcom corcm armwin corape crazy cavedog abbreviations, then I suggest maelstrom's FBI editor; load all the AA units and it will display the official names, the crazy abbreviations, and a whole bunch of stuff about the unit.

After that, just modify the .txt files to have the buildlist for the AA version of that unit, and make more for the AA only construction units.

After that, modify the cheap_multiplier and defence_spacing and stuff in mod.tdf.

Oh yeah, and stuff in global.txt will be build whenever you have a B_GLOBAL in the buildlists.

AF wrote:Actually, there's 2 extra ways of telling unitnames

look at the learning file for the mod, it'll be in the format

UNITNAME= VALUE; // hUMAN nAME AS SEEN INGAME - DESCRIPTION TOOLTIP

Also the output groupAI should output as much data as it can find on a unti and save it to text files labelled by the *ingame name*_*itnernal unitname*.txt, for example "Commander_armcom.txt"

Also lindir I changed the way scouter and atatcker tags work slightly.

If you define a list fo scouters and attackers and you also define dynamic selection as true then it will look at the list you specified, and if it doesnt find the unit on that list then it uses the algorithms. It helps iron out problems where NTai doesnt detect a certain unit correctly..

And several times in other threads:

http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4919
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4363

And here at darkstars (some of it obsolete because of newer added features):

http://darkstars.co.uk/?p=21

Hopefully you will actually make something, unlike everybody else...

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 04 Jun 2006, 05:51

Can you make a version without SpringSP and Nanoblobs and all that crap with it? Cause nanoblobs sucks, and I already have springSP, why should I have to download the extra stuff?

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 04 Jun 2006, 06:23

Hm. Actually, that doesn't sound too complicated. I'll give it a shot when I'm bored at work later this week.

Is there a technical reason why the "this unit can build this" lists can't be compiled from the mod files? Even if NTAI can't do it when it runs, surely one could write a program to do it?

AF · Post by AF » 04 Jun 2006, 12:35

the problem si that you're syaing that they're untis can build these units, but I am saying it is units will build these units.

What it can build is irrelevant, this is about what it will do

Look at lindirs latest buildtree up at FU, he's used certain tricks to make untis help repair adv infrastructure. He made it so that NTai made untis repair nearby minifusions instead of starting new ones if there's one within xxx ticks as defined in the mod.tdf. This means that anythign whcih cannto build a mini fusion will follow this rule and repair any in range, if there arent then NTai sees it cannot build it anyways and skips onto the next item....

Thats an XE8.1 trick since the needed tags and features arent in XE8

Spring RTS Engine

NTai XE10.1b