Absolute Annihilation 1.5

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 02 Jun 2006, 01:07

BigSteve wrote:it packs a fair pucnh with decent armour

Not as of 1.46. The Bulldog has 4900 HP, the Demolisher 3950. The Bulldog gets 172 DPS at 475 range, the Demolisher 216 at 545. The Demolisher costs a fair bit more. Oh, and the Bulldog's faster to boot. (1.67 VS 1.06)

You'd have to be insane to build Demolishers right now. The Bulldog does almost everything better, and for the rare thing it doesn't do better, you've got Penetrators or Lugers.

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 02 Jun 2006, 01:24

MR.D wrote:The lvl1 Exploiter isn't really much of a problem, its reasonably easy to take down, it gives less metal than a normal mex and costs alot to build.

My bitch is with the LVL2 Moho-Exploiter, the firepower is fair concidering the cost involved in making one vs the metal income, but it is way over armored for what it needs to be.

Knocking the hell outta Lvl1 units doesn't bother me that much, as a lvl2 defence it is as effective as other units of its cost if not more, but once you start striking it with lvl2 units such as Bulldog and it can destroy up to 4 incoming Heavy tanks even if its mixed with some light units to get ur heavy units in range.

For me that seems silly to be able to stop a full scale assault with a moho mine that has so much survivability..

I know that artillery units are quite capable of handling this role, although its not my preference to use it as often as I should.

I'm stuck in a dilemma with the unit, I love this moho exploiter because if I build one, I rarely ever need to put more than that for an awesome defence, and at the same time even when I use them it seems overpowered because it out performs defence units that cost alot more to do the same thing.

If it was able to turn at the same rate regardless of ground metal, I would never build anything except moho exploiters as my main ground defensive line.

Indeed, exploiters do over 2k DPS if im not mistaken, thats 13 big berthas, almost a krogoth or 4 annihilators. Regardless of being weak vs artillery, it is more cost effective than pretty much all lvl2 defenses in terms of damage.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 02 Jun 2006, 01:32

BigSteve wrote:
it packs a fair pucnh with decent armour

Ewagaen...
Not as of 1.46. The Bulldog has 4900 HP, the Demolisher 3950. The Bulldog gets 172 DPS at 475 range, the Demolisher 216 at 545. The Demolisher costs a fair bit more. Oh, and the Bulldog's faster to boot. (1.67 VS 1.06)

You'd have to be insane to build Demolishers right now. The Bulldog does almost everything better, and for the rare thing it doesn't do better, you've got Penetrators or Lugers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By fair, I mean fair, not good, bulldog has good armour and good firepower.
Demolisher packs a fair punch and has deceent (not good) armour.
And as Id already mentioned is very slow and expensive.
dont units have an armour rating? is the demolishers higher than the bully?
Or is that the dps thing youre on about?

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 02 Jun 2006, 01:47

BigSteve wrote:BigSteve wrote:
it packs a fair pucnh with decent armour

Ewagaen...
Not as of 1.46. The Bulldog has 4900 HP, the Demolisher 3950. The Bulldog gets 172 DPS at 475 range, the Demolisher 216 at 545. The Demolisher costs a fair bit more. Oh, and the Bulldog's faster to boot. (1.67 VS 1.06)

You'd have to be insane to build Demolishers right now. The Bulldog does almost everything better, and for the rare thing it doesn't do better, you've got Penetrators or Lugers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By fair, I mean fair, not good, bulldog has good armour and good firepower.
Demolisher packs a fair punch and has deceent (not good) armour.
And as Id already mentioned is very slow and expensive.
dont units have an armour rating? is the demolishers higher than the bully?
Or is that the dps thing youre on about?

dps is damage-per-second. Damage/rate of fire, so that one can compare how much damage an EMG does compared to a beamlaser.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 02 Jun 2006, 05:23

Machiosabre wrote:exploiters are easier to see?, an exploiter on a frontline or especially alone somewhere would have a high risk of dying, a twilight would never be targeted.

Only if you're playing against an idiot who happens never to hit f4. No, the L1 Exploiters and the Twilights are both risky tosses of the die, and I see no true disparity between them.

The main issue is once again with the L2 Exploiters.

BigSteve, I am sure, understands dps. He just doesn't consider it as such, because exact details are unnecessary to play a tight game.

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 02 Jun 2006, 07:17

Nah, noone ever presses f4 to peek on mexxes. It should be ixed, but cloaked mexes are quite usefull.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 02 Jun 2006, 11:55

i play both sides and exploter is not that uber. Normal exploter is handy to defend flanks, but moho is very expensive. Maybe only worth to build on choke point, not on all peremiter. But tremor or merl OWNZ exploter so no big deal.

And its allways smarter to invest in mobile units than static defense.

So both exploiters are fine imo. But demolisher and reaper are crap atm.

And plz DONT make goli some uber slow snail, it has to keep pace with other army (like banisher, tremor etc) Or i will just be useless.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 02 Jun 2006, 14:14

i think a slight speed nerf is necessary so that the reaper has a better role, the main point i am interested in is the reductions in the turret turn speed, so that no longer is the golly a all purpose tank, making it better vs heavy, slow units or vs defenses

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 02 Jun 2006, 14:23

If gollies become too slow they'll be practically worthless; it won't have time to get in range of anything... It's already extremely slow when turning or moving through rough terrain. Slightly less speed, higher cost, but higher armour and dps would could, just without extreme changes.

bamb · Post by **bamb** » 02 Jun 2006, 14:36

Ok, I'm a newb but one advantage of the demolisher compared to bulldog is instant shots meaning you can hit fast-moving enemies. And compared to the penetrator, you can shoot while at any attitude and turn quicker. If the penetrator is overwhelmed, it's hard to retreat since it both turns slow and if you turn, you can't keep shooting because of the constrained firing arc, no?

Here's some conjecture: maybe it could be made a good unit with slight changes, the long range means it could shoot enemy units before they shot back, and if it were a bit faster, it could avoid dying by avoiding the enemy ever getting to shooting range. It would also hit every time. Requires micro of course.

Bulldog has about the damage per second value from the AA 1.46 unit guide, and it's faster and tougher, so maybe multiple stats would have to be changed.

Soulless1 · Post by **Soulless1** » 02 Jun 2006, 14:51

Aun wrote:If gollies become too slow they'll be practically worthless; it won't have time to get in range of anything... It's already extremely slow when turning or moving through rough terrain. Slightly less speed, higher cost, but higher armour and dps would could, just without extreme changes.

I suppose they could be made into the vehicle equivalent of the sumo...

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 02 Jun 2006, 15:14

Dont know if this has been posted before:

The Arm Flame-DT also gives errors, I think it complained about "missing pieces"

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 02 Jun 2006, 15:44

Soulless1 wrote:
Aun wrote:If gollies become too slow they'll be practically worthless; it won't have time to get in range of anything... It's already extremely slow when turning or moving through rough terrain. Slightly less speed, higher cost, but higher armour and dps would could, just without extreme changes.

I suppose they could be made into the vehicle equivalent of the sumo...

But we already have the Sumo =P And besides, Sumos turn and climb well....

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 02 Jun 2006, 16:26

Some extras I've added to my list so far (my main changelog in on my main computer, which is borked atm):

Improve Atlantis (armbc) anti-air missile
Increase Zulu metal cost 1500
Improve arm/core flagship weapons
Leejen HP reduced 400 units
Shiva no longer appears "sunk" into the ground
Switch Marauder weapon to standard plasma shot, in gauss state
Moho exploiter HP reduced 500 (this will have a much bigger effect in armoured state)
Demolisher removed
Commander cloaking cost when stationary reduced to 100

Demolisher: to be honest, I just liked its design. It's an old-timer in AA, it's been with the mod since something like version 3 for OTA (it's now version 6). With the recent changes to bulldog et al, it hasn't got a well-defined role and can be removed without damaging anything.

This is just from reading the last few pages as well as some PMs. When I've got my main computer working again and I'm able to post a new version, I'll review the whole thread.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 02 Jun 2006, 16:32

Make it a rapidfire lightning unit, Designed to eat hordes of the weaker level 2 units.

And caydr, 2 things, Whens GEM gonna need beta testers, And do you condone the use of speedmetal?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 02 Jun 2006, 16:33

Don't go Off-topic

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 02 Jun 2006, 16:41

bamb wrote:Ok, I'm a newb but one advantage of the demolisher compared to bulldog is instant shots meaning you can hit fast-moving enemies.

Except the rate of fire is crud, so you can't deal with swarms. And I don't think it's accurate enough to manage that.

Caydr wrote:Demolisher: to be honest, I just liked its design. It's an old-timer in AA, it's been with the mod since something like version 3 for OTA (it's now version 6). With the recent changes to bulldog et al, it hasn't got a well-defined role and can be removed without damaging anything.

It'd be nice if it could be given a well-defined role. I like the design too, and the Arm tanks are kind of "blah" compared to their KBots. The rapid-fire anti-spam solution might work. Another option might be to make it a bigger, tougher Panther. Sort of a great close-assault unit in the same way that the Goliath is a great bombardment-assault unit?

Day · Post by **Day** » 02 Jun 2006, 16:41

i play both sides and exploter is not that uber. Normal exploter is handy to defend flanks, but moho is very expensive. Maybe only worth to build on choke point, not on all peremiter. But tremor or merl OWNZ exploter so no big deal.

And its allways smarter to invest in mobile units than static defense.

So both exploiters are fine imo. But demolisher and reaper are crap atm.

And plz DONT make goli some uber slow snail, it has to keep pace with other army (like banisher, tremor etc) Or i will just be useless.

If the reaper is on par with the bulldog.. wont the reaper take that place the goliath is in more or less, so you will use reapers to mix up with other armies and golies for base assaults

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 02 Jun 2006, 17:23

Drone_Fragger wrote:Make it a rapidfire lightning unit, Designed to eat hordes of the weaker level 2 units.

And caydr, 2 things, Whens GEM gonna need beta testers, And do you condone the use of speedmetal?

QFE

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 02 Jun 2006, 17:51

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 1.5