Moderators role in policing in-game conduct.

Post by **det** » 31 May 2006, 05:54

I'm sorry if it seems as if I am trying to start a flame war, but this really bothers me.

Continuing the locked thread: http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5118

KlavoHunter wrote:Team-killing bases via commbomb, and attempted comm-napping of my comm.

Somebody get this child off of the server.

SwiftSpear wrote:Teamkilling isn't attempting to win the game, it's attempting to ruin the game. That being said, contact moderators directly with complaints like this and provide evidence (a demo).

SwiftSpear wrote:This will be dealt with by spring moderators as soon as possible. Thank's for the report.

I am really concerned with the implication that someone can be banned from the lobby server for actions performed in-game. And that is even without taking into consideration how rediculously easy it is for anyone with a text editor to forge this "evidence".

Leaderz0rz · Post by **Leaderz0rz** » 31 May 2006, 05:56

I think it would take a replay of it to even be considered..if you provide a replay of playerX walking his comm over to his ally base and self-ding then I would say thats pretty obvious.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 31 May 2006, 06:24

Replays are a little more difficult to forge then that, a record of the player's name is kept encoded into gamecode that is pretty hard to decrypt if you aren't the spring engine. Yes it's possible, but more difficult then just editing with a text editor. Either way, we take all reports with a grain of salt, expecially those by sources that we don't trust 100%.

Gerenally speaking I don't ban people just based on reports anyways, I always follow up every report by getting the other side of the story and trying to get coroberation from other springers on the issue. Keep in mind a demo records a record of every player in the game, so I can poll the other players in the game and get clean demos if I have reason to belive that evidence has been falsified. Falsifying evidence in a case against another player will definately get you banned.

The only people who have been banned first offence after a report has been filed are people who exploded at the moderator trying to deal with them when he warned them about the complaint. If you prove that you can't be civil to a moderator trying to get your side of the story on an issue then they have no grounds to belive that you were civil to the person making the report, and thus that the report is valid.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 03 Jun 2006, 23:33

I understand that the answer to prevent a dude from ruining your game is to "Just kick him".

However, I wanted to prevent him from ruining the games of OTHERS.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 04 Jun 2006, 03:33

as i said
a server badlist open for all to see in the channel message of #Main
spam accounts can be made, but they can be put on the list. Eventually they'll give up!
Banning from lobby for behaviour ingame is COMPLETELY out of order. You are denied even using the lobby, not becuase you spam/scream abuse, but because you got bored, were on too much beer, had a bad day or w/e. imo its injust and stupid, maybe IPs repeatedly doing this could have a big red B or something appear next to their name?? or something. Anything but banning ppl for behavior ingame!

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 04 Jun 2006, 05:27

You don't need to ban from the lobby, just from #main. They can spam up their own channels, without making Spring look bad to hovering parents like mine.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 04 Jun 2006, 06:41

There's no way we can functionally impliment server bad lists, what we can do is dicipline players for inapropriate actions. If you go into your favorate friendly fire enabled CS server and start killing friendlys then an admin will ban you. Period. Same thing here, if you ruin games for other spring players you will be banned for it.

Because spring isn't paid we can't force a univerially recognized ID system on our players, and it would just be irresponsible of us to allow spring users access to other user's IP adresses because there's alot more that can be done with IP's then just knowing who to not let play in your games. Spring administrators aren't about to allow people to use multiple accounts to ruin the spring experiance for other players. If you ruin games your banned by IP, period.

When spring is paid we can administer a unique ID per payment system that would give us the ability to allow game hosts to badlist people by unique ID. Until that time (which is never hopefully) you're going to have to trust spring adminstrators to deal with this kind of situation appropriately. Things are the way they are because it is the only workable option on the system we run. This really is not an issue up for debate.

Post by **det** » 04 Jun 2006, 14:31

SwiftSpear wrote:... you're going to have to trust spring adminstrators to deal with this kind of situation appropriately. Things are the way they are because it is the only workable option on the system we run. This really is not an issue up for debate.

This kind of patronizing attitude sickens me. Why _isn't_ it an issue up for the debate. What gives you the justification to dismiss the communites concern in this matter?

SwiftSpear wrote:Replays are a little more difficult to forge then that, a record of the player's name is kept encoded into gamecode that is pretty hard to decrypt if you aren't the spring engine. Yes it's possible, but more difficult then just editing with a text editor. Either way, we take all reports with a grain of salt, expecially those by sources that we don't trust 100%.

I just opened a replay and replaced every occurance of "det" with "sam" and it worked like a charm. Fact is, what happens in-game is hearsay and not practical for moderators to be involved in. Quite frankly, it is none of your buisness.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 04 Jun 2006, 16:45

you're going to have to trust spring adminstrators to deal with this kind of situation appropriately.

its not appropriate. ingame stuff should not get you banned from the lobby or from #main

This really is not an issue up for debate.

lock the thread then. before my blood pressure starts rising even further

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 04 Jun 2006, 18:44

det and min i think u guys are over reacting.

if u don't let moderators well moderate whats their point. and the ingame claim is rediculous. its like saying the police should be allowed to stop/arrest criminals on public property but not in someones home.

finally what are u worried about? do u do these kinds of things and are afraid of getting banned? i doubt it so i don't see what ur problem is.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 04 Jun 2006, 21:06

j5mello wrote:if u don't let moderators well moderate whats their point. and the ingame claim is rediculous. its like saying the police should be allowed to stop/arrest criminals on public property but not in someones home.

The point is that in the Lobby, Mods have logs that they can consult to see what happened for themselves. For in-game behaviour, mods have to rely on replays, and player names in replays can be trivially forged. This means that anyone can make a replay showing anyone doing anything.

Candleman · Post by **Candleman** » 04 Jun 2006, 21:38

If every replay can be forged, then teh mods might as well do nothing about ingame happenings. As far as I know, they don't do anything anyway.

All that is needed for ingame banning is witnesses. If replays aren't reliable, then hopefully we can get truthful players. If we can't get any of those, then this game needs to die.

Mods are people too. They were appointed for a reason, and If you disagree with the mod, then you disagree with the mod. No more.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 04 Jun 2006, 21:47

Perhaps replays can be checksummed by Spring when they are finished, and that info can be added to the replay. If someone tries to forge names, then the checksum won't clear anymore.

Candleman · Post by **Candleman** » 04 Jun 2006, 21:49

Yeah. Do that.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 04 Jun 2006, 22:15

det wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:... you're going to have to trust spring adminstrators to deal with this kind of situation appropriately. Things are the way they are because it is the only workable option on the system we run. This really is not an issue up for debate.
This kind of patronizing attitude sickens me. Why _isn't_ it an issue up for the debate. What gives you the justification to dismiss the communites concern in this matter?

FYI it wasn't patronizing. Also patronizing is a verb not an adjective. I hate the fact that people overuse along with misuse that word. It is so agitating, why do people misuse words? Do you think it makes you sound more intelligent?

Oh, and so you know.. I am not talking out of my ass here... I looked it up, the following is from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

Pronunciation: 'pA-tr&-"nIz, 'pa-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -ized; -iz├é┬Àing
1 : to act as patron of : provide aid or support for
2 : to adopt an air of condescension toward : treat haughtily or coolly
3 : to be a frequent or regular customer or client of

I think you are being a paranoid and ignorant person...

It is not a big deal The ban hammer is heavy and takes a lot to get it raised over someone's head and even so... the perma-ban hammer is heavier! Get over your freakish paranoia.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 04 Jun 2006, 22:28

So let me get this straight... you dont want moderators to ban people based off of replays and accumulated reports of ingame misconduct because it might be possible for some guy to forge your name into a replay/report so that a moderator will ban you from spring... WTF people come on now.. OMG someone might frame me for combombing and I might get banned after the mods discuss it in committe for a week.. ZOMGOSH RUN!!!!

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 04 Jun 2006, 22:34

FizWizz wrote:Perhaps replays can be checksummed by Spring when they are finished, and that info can be added to the replay. If someone tries to forge names, then the checksum won't clear anymore.

That Doesn't Work. All you have to do is change the names and re-run the checksum code.

Post by **det** » 05 Jun 2006, 00:07

smoth wrote: FYI it wasn't patronizing. Also patronizing is a verb not an adjective. I hate the fact that people overuse along with misuse that word. It is so agitating, why do people misuse words? Do you think it makes you sound more intelligent?

Good job, you gave the defination of patronize and not patronizing.
Check out the bottom of this link. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=patronizing

smoth wrote: Oh, and so you know.. I am not talking out of my ass here... I looked it up, the following is from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

Apparently you were.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 05 Jun 2006, 00:24

det wrote:
smoth wrote: FYI it wasn't patronizing. Also patronizing is a verb not an adjective. I hate the fact that people overuse along with misuse that word. It is so agitating, why do people misuse words? Do you think it makes you sound more intelligent?
Good job, you gave the defination of patronize and not patronizing.
Check out the bottom of this link. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=patronizing

smoth wrote: Oh, and so you know.. I am not talking out of my ass here... I looked it up, the following is from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
Apparently you were.

really? not shit!

That is the definition for patronize asshat.
you still misused the word

Post by **det** » 05 Jun 2006, 00:37

smoth wrote:That is the definition for patronize asshat.
you still misused the word

I said check out the bottom of the page, more specificly, this part.

dictionary.com wrote: patronizing

adj : (used of behavior or attitude) characteristic of those who treat others with condescension [syn: arch, condescending, patronising]

Spring RTS Engine

Moderators role in policing in-game conduct.

Moderators role in policing in-game conduct.