How did you choose your AI?

AF · Post by AF » 19 May 2006, 16:36

What skirmish AI do you use? Why did you choose it? And what was wrong with the competition?

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 19 May 2006, 17:02

is this addressed to just anyone who uses Skirmish AIs?

okay then..

AAI. Can't say why, but it's a very simple install, dump and extract. The 'learning' thing that it does is a neat little trick, even though the degree to which the AI actually improves itself is modest. The profiles mean that I can make adjustments to how the AI plays, but unfortunately the profile does not give you much 'real' influence over AI behavior, it really just a calibration.

what was wrong with the competition? I tried OTAI a while back, but just couldn't be arsed to try it again. It was a pleasant surprise when OTAI had bomber carpet my base once, but should I fight it again, I'll be prepared for that. NTAI... First time I used the installer it spewed files all over my spring directory as well as giving me SpringSP which I had never asked for, and wasn't aware was bundled with it. In game, it built a nice little base but sent its attack groups into the upper-left corner. That was many versions ago. The next time I gave NTAI a shot was XE8, where it invariably crashed on me if a game went long enough. NTAI displayed some nice behavior, but the crashing is *very* frustrating. I have since deleted NTAI.
I played KAIblobs, I liked that it kicked my ass to timbuktu, but I didn't like that it was only for nanoblobs v.2.
Never played an AI other than that, I can't even name any of them off the top of my head.

bamb · Post by **bamb** » 19 May 2006, 18:26

I use AAI mostly since
-it doesn't crash (that much at least)
-it plays AA
-it uses a reasonable amount of cpu power

For other mods, like EE, I might use NTai. I haven't fooled around much lately, after XE8 came around.

That some AI (OT or JC) uses too much cpu, Kai doesn't exist in the wild, SAI crashes with the current spring for me.

I've tested all I could have layed my hands on.

Btw that newes metal maker ai (improved v2 or whatsit, that came with NTAI among the mass of other group ai:s) almost freezes my computer when i turn it on on some metal makers. bad bad. I now use the plainest version there is just "metal maker ai" that seems to work pretty well.

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 19 May 2006, 19:10

Excluding KAI for obvious reasons i use AAI for all mods it supports, due to its low cpu usage (can run tests on speed 10-20), and sometimes OTAI and NTAI for overall benchmarking, but that has largely been replaced by a virtually unlimited supply of human guinea pigs, endlessly replayable and always different.
The reason i dont play with the other AIs is the amount of slowdowns/crashes and lack of mod compatibility.

AF · Post by AF » 19 May 2006, 20:18

Excluding NTai

OTAI/AAI - Usually a mixture of the two in skirmish FFA's, and because they're not NTai

JCAI and the rest are outdated, or they crash (SAI has never worked for me)

PS:: Thanks for the info on Imp Metalmaker AI, I didnt know it had problems...

submarine · Post by **submarine** » 19 May 2006, 21:38

i used to test aai vs ntai/otai

however otai is still not usable for me due to those "freezes".

ntai uses too much cpu power for larger (2vs2, 3vs3) battles at high speed (~6-10), although i got the impression that the performance of ntai xe8 has been improved quite a bit compared to older versions. but ntai currently only works more or less well with xta (i hate xta). additionaly i dislike the fact that ntai seems to spread its files all over my spring folder...

therefore i mainly used sai for playtesting with aa. sai was relativly fast, very stable and rather challenging for my ai.

Bad_Dude · Post by **Bad_Dude** » 19 May 2006, 22:46

AAI is good.
Ntai is good.
SAI 0.15 is insane!

bamb · Post by **bamb** » 20 May 2006, 00:40

How does one get SAI 0.15 work? What mod? I have the file downloaded, but it crashes at least in AA. Or starts reserving endless memory.

Bad_Dude · Post by **Bad_Dude** » 20 May 2006, 01:41

I just read the readme for it, and blammo, it kills you fast

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 20 May 2006, 02:20

OTAI and then NTAI.

They're actually interesting. OTAI is my personal favourite, and NTAI actually works... I have never gotten AAI to work very well.

Bad_Dude · Post by **Bad_Dude** » 20 May 2006, 03:31

Im wondering why some AI's work better for some people than others, is this a bug or something with SPRING its self? Cause On my computer with Ntai on cheat mode, didnt have a chance againt SAI, So this must be something wrong with SPRING somewhere.

Spectre · Post by **Spectre** » 20 May 2006, 04:30

SAI is a crazy AI

It plays like me ( dumb but fast ) .. I├é┬┤ll continue to work on it soon.
next:
- config files
- support for most mods

AF · Post by AF » 20 May 2006, 17:22

SAI simply refuses to work for me point blank. There's an ExSAI.dll that loads the SAI dll in turn using exception handling and it is doing something because ti registers in debug mode as taking up cpu resources, but it does nothing. Without the exception AI buffer I wrote it crashes instantly. The ExSAI.dll was in the XE8 installer, I meant to add one for OTAI and JCAI but never got round to it.

PS:: I object tot he statement Submarine made over NTai spreading files all over the spring directory, everything is in a single folder named AI and it can be changed and moved around through a single config file. Also Veylon has stated OTAI 1.14 will be using that folder too, and any AI interface extensions will use it too.

Anyone know what happened to QAI dev?

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 20 May 2006, 17:39

AF wrote:
PS:: I object tot he statement Submarine made over NTai spreading files all over the spring directory, everything is in a single folder named AI and it can be changed and moved around through a single config file.

lol

i tried upgrading to XE8 without taking 7.5 off first...i couldn't figure out what the hell was happening! duplicate directories everywhere

both installed to dofferent irectories...and a third cropped up somehow

AF · Post by AF » 20 May 2006, 17:56

delete the NTAI folder and XE7/7.5/6/5/4/3/2/1/0.29 will be uninstalled, then install XE8

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 22 May 2006, 23:26

AF wrote:delete the NTAI folder and XE7/7.5/6/5/4/3/2/1/0.29 will be uninstalled, then install XE8

the trouble was that would have been the entire spring directory

Post by **jcnossen** » 23 May 2006, 02:00

PS:: I object tot he statement Submarine made over NTai spreading files all over the spring directory, everything is in a single folder named AI and it can be changed and moved around through a single config file. Also Veylon has stated OTAI 1.14 will be using that folder too, and any AI interface extensions will use it too.

Though I don't see why NTAI couldn't be using the standard of AIs putting their files in aidll/globalai/ainame. I think this is what people don't like.

Erom · Post by **Erom** » 23 May 2006, 04:09

I use AAI because it's installation was simple, and it is the only AI that I have tried that runs stably on my machine.

I love the learning algorithm too- after 10 games on one map, there aren't many new things it will try, but it's really fun to fire up a new map and watch it evolve depending on what strategy you pursue over the course of the first 5-10 games.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 23 May 2006, 09:20

KAI is pretty sweet. maph4x FTW

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 23 May 2006, 17:07

unpossible wrote:
AF wrote:delete the NTAI folder and XE7/7.5/6/5/4/3/2/1/0.29 will be uninstalled, then install XE8
the trouble was that would have been the entire spring directory

I agree, please AF fix the "NTAI dumps crap all over the spring folder" issue, a folder for metal files would be nice or it could keep all its stuff in a globalai/ntai folder for example....

Spring RTS Engine

How did you choose your AI?

How did you choose your AI?