Project Two: Now Recruiting
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
Actually, I think it will be a lot less problematic than you think. I've been looking at the issues, and I am confident that doing the animations will be quite practical, and I can keep the polycount within reasonable levels.
I'll talk about the modeling aspect of this project a little more when I get a chance- unfortunately, I didn't really get a "weekend" this week, so I'm grabbing slices of time where I can, in between working.
I'll talk about the modeling aspect of this project a little more when I get a chance- unfortunately, I didn't really get a "weekend" this week, so I'm grabbing slices of time where I can, in between working.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
You should look into getting hold of some of the models/textures from Rome Total War and relevant mods (particularly the LotR one), as they have some pretty good (And reasonably low-poly) infantry, and if you look carefully and ask nicely, are free of copyright issues (the mod ones anyway).
But yeah, I still highly advise against using organics, and hand-to-hand weaponry, just because it's a nightmare to coordinate.
That being said, it'd be great to have someone else working on it, so that we can swap (read: steal) ideas. My Jedi look okay in OTA, but not too good in Spring, although to be honest I (or Gnome, who is on the scripting end) haven't put too much work in, as there are more pressing things to attend too.
But yeah, I still highly advise against using organics, and hand-to-hand weaponry, just because it's a nightmare to coordinate.
That being said, it'd be great to have someone else working on it, so that we can swap (read: steal) ideas. My Jedi look okay in OTA, but not too good in Spring, although to be honest I (or Gnome, who is on the scripting end) haven't put too much work in, as there are more pressing things to attend too.
First off, I'll take a look at the (modded) content. However, I have a feeling that they use IK, and probably won't be suitable for translation directly, unless S3O is successfully abstracted and fully supports IK in the near future, which I doubt it will. However, I may be able to break them up and use them. I doubt it, but stranger things have been done.
I need to get ahold of and absorb TA:K's content, especially the BOS scripts for the horses and a few other things, where I'd like to avoid having to re-invent the wheel.
Spring offers some definate advantages at this point, which is why this project doesn't scare me too much. For one thing, the true restricted-arc weapons work really quite well, now that I know what I'm doing. We can finally have HTH units that make sense and don't require huge scripting. There are some issues with the way that they're handled by the engine, especially on the low-level AI end, but that's stuff I can address once there is a working demo of basic concepts.
I don't mind the idea of having some steampunk stuff, but I don't want it to be just a mishmash that doesn't feel coherent. Anybody who'd like to take a swipe at (concise) backstories that appeal to them is welcome, and I would welcome concept art. I'm not all that picky about such things, so long as they don't include caveats that would limit my game design options overmuch.
I need to get ahold of and absorb TA:K's content, especially the BOS scripts for the horses and a few other things, where I'd like to avoid having to re-invent the wheel.
Spring offers some definate advantages at this point, which is why this project doesn't scare me too much. For one thing, the true restricted-arc weapons work really quite well, now that I know what I'm doing. We can finally have HTH units that make sense and don't require huge scripting. There are some issues with the way that they're handled by the engine, especially on the low-level AI end, but that's stuff I can address once there is a working demo of basic concepts.
I don't mind the idea of having some steampunk stuff, but I don't want it to be just a mishmash that doesn't feel coherent. Anybody who'd like to take a swipe at (concise) backstories that appeal to them is welcome, and I would welcome concept art. I'm not all that picky about such things, so long as they don't include caveats that would limit my game design options overmuch.
.give all... there is a fish thing that comes with spring.SwiftSpear wrote:Spring is a bit of an unfortuneate engine to realize such a vision... Organic models are very difficult to animate effectively in spring and you won't be able to include much in the way of fun details if you want large scale battles to work well.
I'd offer to do concept art if you need it but other then that I'll have to wish you best of luck and leave it at that.
I am currently writing a bizarre fantasy ish novel set in the far flung future, after a meteorite comprised of pure magic struck the earth and covered the world in a sea of all consuming Silt. A scattered coalition of nobles hold together the borders of a shattered Utah. The omnipotent N.E.T corporation supplies and governs the nobles, while Conjurers (beings who have somehow been infused with the magic that struck the earth, and can now summon metal, water, soil, guns ext) work for the N.E.T and the Nobel's. Its a deadly, lawless, and not at all fun place to be. But it dose sound like a cool RTS, if I can think of an enemy of the N.E.T. Mabey...raiders? I don't know.
I guess my whole feeling on this is that Dinamik has shown that it's more than possible, with 3DO models that aren't even slightly face-efficient, no less. I've already done some initial concept sketches for infantry that will be under 400 tris and still quite detailed, and will look good while animating.
In addition... one of the previous games I worked on, a very, very long time ago, was animated sprite stuff made entirely with Infini-D 4.0 (an app. so old that most of you probably won't know what I'm talking about). It didn't feature any IK, so I had to do things the hard way, like I'd have to do with Spring... I'm not really sweating it, honestly. You just have to know what things aren't really practical, is all... and not do them. It's not rocket science.
HTH is actually quite practical, in large part because Spring doesn't have the same hitbox problems OTA did. I built a HTH Kbot for Mechpack: Improved, but I was never really happy with it, because it was a huge set of kludges. In Spring, I'll just have an invisible, almost-instant beam that shoots out... and an animation that has to reach X stage before firing. No big deal.
The bigger questions are issues of mood, scale, and gameplay. I cannot build a mod with 200+ units all by myself, in my non-copious spare time, so I really am going to have to make what I can as I go, and hope that other people will contribute to the mod. If those of you who said you can script actually get stuff done, I can get the first playable tech demos done within a month, I am guessing, but a fully polished game takes quite awhile, given the content requirements. I was hoping more artists would volunteer, but I'll take whatever help I can get- perhaps more people will sign on after I get to the early screenshot stages :)
In addition... one of the previous games I worked on, a very, very long time ago, was animated sprite stuff made entirely with Infini-D 4.0 (an app. so old that most of you probably won't know what I'm talking about). It didn't feature any IK, so I had to do things the hard way, like I'd have to do with Spring... I'm not really sweating it, honestly. You just have to know what things aren't really practical, is all... and not do them. It's not rocket science.
HTH is actually quite practical, in large part because Spring doesn't have the same hitbox problems OTA did. I built a HTH Kbot for Mechpack: Improved, but I was never really happy with it, because it was a huge set of kludges. In Spring, I'll just have an invisible, almost-instant beam that shoots out... and an animation that has to reach X stage before firing. No big deal.
The bigger questions are issues of mood, scale, and gameplay. I cannot build a mod with 200+ units all by myself, in my non-copious spare time, so I really am going to have to make what I can as I go, and hope that other people will contribute to the mod. If those of you who said you can script actually get stuff done, I can get the first playable tech demos done within a month, I am guessing, but a fully polished game takes quite awhile, given the content requirements. I was hoping more artists would volunteer, but I'll take whatever help I can get- perhaps more people will sign on after I get to the early screenshot stages :)
And Zoombie, I like your basic idea there- sort've a Mad Max meets Rifts meets Elric idea, but without stealing directly from any of their premises.
That might be fun, and give us a lot've leeway to kind've make things up as we go along. Come up with some sort've central conflict that makes some sense in an RTS game engine where I only have two resources to play with, that could plausibly include a lot've different sides, and I'm sold.
It sounds fun, but vague, and we could have magic, steampunk, and even far-future technology in it without it really mattering all that much, with the "global magic event" being a convenient excuse. I'm not exactly hardcore about backstory, but I'd like this project to have one, even if it's pretty much an excuse to do what I want anyhow
That might be fun, and give us a lot've leeway to kind've make things up as we go along. Come up with some sort've central conflict that makes some sense in an RTS game engine where I only have two resources to play with, that could plausibly include a lot've different sides, and I'm sold.
It sounds fun, but vague, and we could have magic, steampunk, and even far-future technology in it without it really mattering all that much, with the "global magic event" being a convenient excuse. I'm not exactly hardcore about backstory, but I'd like this project to have one, even if it's pretty much an excuse to do what I want anyhow
Oh and the resources would be...Water and Ammo. Ammo is made by a conjurers (factory unit) that is basically creating nothing but ammo, using his mental energy. Its slow, so you need a lot. However conjurers are expensive and easily destroyed. You need ammo for your gun using units (as well as VTOL hover craft and stage coaches made of plastic with M6000's mounted on the side, pulled by wheels with steam engines in the middle).
Water would be created by a DIFFERENT kind of Conjurer (See water is non-existent on this new earth, as the Silt, when it comes in contact with water, gets harder then concrete. So thats how you use water to 'build' buildings! Cool, eh?) and they can only do it were water had ONCE existed. If you ask a conjurer why, they would probably look at you witheringly, wondering why how someone so moronic could survive so long.
So we've got the resources. Units would be normal infantry (Guardsmen or something) with patchwork armor and patchwork swords, hacking at other enemy's with patchwork swords and patchwork armor. Swordsmen would take a long time to kill with other swords men, but will cut through gun men like a cattle prod through liquid fat. Guns take a while to fire (As bullets are very rare, so automatic weapons are rare and nearly insanely powerful) but a line of gun men would be able to wipe the floor with any number of swordsmen, as long as their ammo doesn't run out...
Sides: Nobles (Guardsmen, gun men, swordsmen, stage coaches and Knights of The Nine)
Nobles once protected the border of Utah, but now they are tired to dicking around with the N.E.T corporation. Now they strike openly against the N.E.T, winning by maneuverability and numbers. They also employ the Knights of the Nine, powerful warriors who can take on ten men and win. Can also use Crucifixion to 'inspire' troops (i was thinking they are buildings you put at the edges of your base, to add flavor to your base and, if possible, have an aural impact...accuracy, mabey?)
N.E.T (Smart guns...they don't aim themselves, just talk. Slaves for grunt work, VTOL Hovercraft for air supremacy. Lots of lasers, but troops expensive and take a long time to get where they are going)
The omnipotent N.E.T corporation controlled the world before AND after the Impact. They built the Net, a massive web of fiber optic cables that surrounds the world like, surprisingly, a gigantic net. They can focus power on the net, firing gigantic lasers down on the map. While the conjures don't work with them (they don't get paid enough to screw around with technology, they still have enough tech to do acts that SEEM magical in nature.
The IRS (the International Reservation of Sorcery/ International Revenue Service).
The IRS, which collects Taxes and governs magicals who don't conjure (Such as fire mages, necromancers, SiltSriders and the like). They get water from Tax stations, placed in strategic places on the map (Where metal spots should be) and get ammo from marketplaces, trading water for ammo at a much more efficient way. The IRS would never run out of ammo, when played properly. They also get the aforementioned mages, all of whom fall under three 'branches'
Fire: Fireball, explosives, nukes and such
Death: Zombification, deathless march (Can go faster, farther) and such
Silt: Strider (summons gigantic bug thing) Soulless (Summons swarms of little flickering green lights, known as Soulles. Soulles enjoy swarming up your nose and eating your brain). And such.
The conflict...control of Salt Lake City. Because the silt covered the lake, there is a massive system of catacombs. And a rich Caribbean drug lord had paid for enough conjurers to line the entire place to be 'renovated' with new water, soil. Trees. Its the last real holiday spot on the planet. The nobles want to live there. The N.E.T wants to turn it into a holiday resort for their upper ranked members. And the IRS desperately wants to turn it into a place were magicals can finally be one amongst equals.
The battle surrounds the area above SLC, and now its up to you. Who will control the city? Certainly not the Mormons, thats for sure :)
PS: Whats Rifts and Elric. I was mostly inspired by Mad Max and my own crazy ideas. And Don Quixote.
Water would be created by a DIFFERENT kind of Conjurer (See water is non-existent on this new earth, as the Silt, when it comes in contact with water, gets harder then concrete. So thats how you use water to 'build' buildings! Cool, eh?) and they can only do it were water had ONCE existed. If you ask a conjurer why, they would probably look at you witheringly, wondering why how someone so moronic could survive so long.
So we've got the resources. Units would be normal infantry (Guardsmen or something) with patchwork armor and patchwork swords, hacking at other enemy's with patchwork swords and patchwork armor. Swordsmen would take a long time to kill with other swords men, but will cut through gun men like a cattle prod through liquid fat. Guns take a while to fire (As bullets are very rare, so automatic weapons are rare and nearly insanely powerful) but a line of gun men would be able to wipe the floor with any number of swordsmen, as long as their ammo doesn't run out...
Sides: Nobles (Guardsmen, gun men, swordsmen, stage coaches and Knights of The Nine)
Nobles once protected the border of Utah, but now they are tired to dicking around with the N.E.T corporation. Now they strike openly against the N.E.T, winning by maneuverability and numbers. They also employ the Knights of the Nine, powerful warriors who can take on ten men and win. Can also use Crucifixion to 'inspire' troops (i was thinking they are buildings you put at the edges of your base, to add flavor to your base and, if possible, have an aural impact...accuracy, mabey?)
N.E.T (Smart guns...they don't aim themselves, just talk. Slaves for grunt work, VTOL Hovercraft for air supremacy. Lots of lasers, but troops expensive and take a long time to get where they are going)
The omnipotent N.E.T corporation controlled the world before AND after the Impact. They built the Net, a massive web of fiber optic cables that surrounds the world like, surprisingly, a gigantic net. They can focus power on the net, firing gigantic lasers down on the map. While the conjures don't work with them (they don't get paid enough to screw around with technology, they still have enough tech to do acts that SEEM magical in nature.
The IRS (the International Reservation of Sorcery/ International Revenue Service).
The IRS, which collects Taxes and governs magicals who don't conjure (Such as fire mages, necromancers, SiltSriders and the like). They get water from Tax stations, placed in strategic places on the map (Where metal spots should be) and get ammo from marketplaces, trading water for ammo at a much more efficient way. The IRS would never run out of ammo, when played properly. They also get the aforementioned mages, all of whom fall under three 'branches'
Fire: Fireball, explosives, nukes and such
Death: Zombification, deathless march (Can go faster, farther) and such
Silt: Strider (summons gigantic bug thing) Soulless (Summons swarms of little flickering green lights, known as Soulles. Soulles enjoy swarming up your nose and eating your brain). And such.
The conflict...control of Salt Lake City. Because the silt covered the lake, there is a massive system of catacombs. And a rich Caribbean drug lord had paid for enough conjurers to line the entire place to be 'renovated' with new water, soil. Trees. Its the last real holiday spot on the planet. The nobles want to live there. The N.E.T wants to turn it into a holiday resort for their upper ranked members. And the IRS desperately wants to turn it into a place were magicals can finally be one amongst equals.
The battle surrounds the area above SLC, and now its up to you. Who will control the city? Certainly not the Mormons, thats for sure :)
PS: Whats Rifts and Elric. I was mostly inspired by Mad Max and my own crazy ideas. And Don Quixote.
There IS a TA Kingdoms port, paulomorfeo started the thread
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewt ... ms&start=0
It had most of the stuff in it, but there where no resource costs, and most if not all the weapons where buggered.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
It's not that organic units are impossible, it's just that they are extra-hard to do well, they takes loads of skills and even more loads of times, while tanks with turrets are infinitely easier.Argh wrote:I guess my whole feeling on this is that Dinamik has shown that it's more than possible, with 3DO models that aren't even slightly face-efficient, no less. I've already done some initial concept sketches for infantry that will be under 400 tris and still quite detailed, and will look good while animating.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29