AAI 0.63 released (win + linux version included)

AF · Post by AF » 20 Apr 2006, 20:14

On the contrary every AI available for spring is affected by starting positions to varying degrees.

NTai is affected slightly, AAI and OTAI should suffer the most because of their building algorithms, more so AAI because of the differences in how the 2 algorithms work. It's mainly because of an inconsistency and the spacing of mex spots around the start pos, tho most maps have the same number of mex spots around the startpos, they're not all in the same arrangement and some are slightly further apart from each other, generating time differentials at the beginning of games.

sintri · Post by **sintri** » 21 Apr 2006, 01:51

just the bottom left hand corner River Dale has major stalling problem. Think Ice Bergs stalls too, but that's an all water map with like no place to build on land. Other than that haven't played enough to notice.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 21 Apr 2006, 02:49

Holy crap...AAI owned me at axis and allies:spring. I mean...completely toasted me the first time I played it.

Great work Submarine.

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » 23 Apr 2006, 19:23

as i told ya, your ai works fine with FF. There are only some minor problems, which would improve the ai a lot i think.

1. it seems that the AI doesnt reclaim the mexes of a level below the actual tech level. The AI only builds better ones, if the mexes have been destroyed. It would be much more intelligent, if the AI would reclaim them like it does with the radar towers.

2. the AI doesnt build poket fusions, but you know that, so i think there is some bug which is not that easy to fix.

I made a testgame and after 10 mins the AI has an eco which is nearly as good as mine. But after 30 mins, the AIs eco is less than half as efficient as mine and after 45 mins, only a third and so on. I think when you fix 1., the AI would get a big boost to its eco and that would increase the strength of it a lot.

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » 23 Apr 2006, 20:17

Optimus Prime wrote:as i told ya, your ai works fine with FF. There are only some minor problems, which would improve the ai a lot i think.

1. it seems that the AI doesnt reclaim the mexes of a level below the actual tech level. The AI only builds better ones, if the mexes have been destroyed. It would be much more intelligent, if the AI would reclaim them like it does with the radar towers.

2. the AI doesnt build poket fusions, but you know that, so i think there is some bug which is not that easy to fix.

I made a testgame and after 10 mins the AI has an eco which is nearly as good as mine. But after 30 mins, the AIs eco is less than half as efficient as mine and after 45 mins, only a third and so on. I think when you fix 1., the AI would get a big boost to its eco and that would increase the strength of it a lot.

I feel it's my duty to point out that TA didn't do the first, either, and the second it did more than it really needed.

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 23 Apr 2006, 21:40

Optimus Prime wrote:
1. it seems that the AI doesnt reclaim the mexes of a level below the actual tech level. The AI only builds better ones, if the mexes have been destroyed. It would be much more intelligent, if the AI would reclaim them like it does with the radar towers.

I've seen it building tier 1 mexxes, reclaiming them, building tier 2, reclaiming those and then building tier 3 with no problem - or was that not what you meant?

submarine · Post by **submarine** » 23 Apr 2006, 22:25

Optimus Prime wrote: 1. it seems that the AI doesnt reclaim the mexes of a level below the actual tech level. The AI only builds better ones, if the mexes have been destroyed. It would be much more intelligent, if the AI would reclaim them like it does with the radar towers.

2. the AI doesnt build poket fusions, but you know that, so i think there is some bug which is not that easy to fix.

it doesnt? sh***, i'm sure aai 0.60 did that. something must be broken when fixing other issues. i'll have a look at it the next few days

yeah i'll also have a look at that pocket fusion problem. anyway i planed to rewrite the power plant selection code - maybe the problem will be gone afterwards

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » 23 Apr 2006, 23:19

that would be great! Thanks

I've seen it building tier 1 mexxes, reclaiming them, building tier 2, reclaiming those and then building tier 3 with no problem - or was that not what you meant?

perhaps its a FF problem. I dont know if it does in AA or XTA, but in FF i never saw it (or it does it so slow, that i didnt noticed it).

jellyman · Post by **jellyman** » 23 Apr 2006, 23:31

I've seen AAI do plenty of upgrading normal mexes to moho mexes in AA. Sometimes it will reclaim a normal mex and then wonder off to do something else and come back at a later time to upgrade the spot to moho.

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 24 Apr 2006, 09:04

Optimus Prime wrote:that would be great! Thanks
I've seen it building tier 1 mexxes, reclaiming them, building tier 2, reclaiming those and then building tier 3 with no problem - or was that not what you meant?
perhaps its a FF problem. I dont know if it does in AA or XTA, but in FF i never saw it (or it does it so slow, that i didnt noticed it).

It was in FF 1.15 that i saw this happening - i cannot remember which map it was playing though...perhaps plains and passes. the first ai definately behaved correctly.

jellyman · Post by **jellyman** » 24 Apr 2006, 14:04

Silly experiment - I managed to beat this AI using fighers - level 1 Avengers and level 2 vamps as my only attack force. It took a long time and I had to build a dozen factories, and dozens of nano turrets. I raided outlying mexes for a long time to try and keep the AIs economy down a bit while I build up my factory power. Raiding mexes and llts is not too hard with a force of say 20 level 2 fighters. While raiding AAI kept moving most of its forces around chasing my fighters, and I didn't pay enough attention. As a result it built up a sizeable horde and I neglected my defences. My fighters also got attacked quite a few times by bombers - I'm pretty sure bombers can actually hit other airplanes in AA. After a gap in the raiding the horde found its way to my base and I had to sacrifice my com to stop it from at minimum taking out 1/2 my base. After that I made sure I built enough defences to keep it from killing me.

To deal with its berthas I built several factories with orders to build streams of a.k.s and move straight into the enemies base. This resulted in almost no loss of my key defensive buildings or econ to bertha fire.

Taking out its main base took a bit of work. There was one flak cannon to take out which took huge numbers of fighters to kill. With my factories going full bore I was able to attack almost constantly with significant waves of fighters. But the AI had a mobile flak or two (I think only one) which was making it painfully slow progress still. I was having real trouble finding it and didn't want to resort to pauseing. Eventually I just overwhelmed an advanced fusion reactor in the middle of the base while a hoard of dozens of AI units tried to kill my fighters. Once the fusion reactor blew it took most of the horde with it, mobile flak included, and the rest of the base then went down to an even larger horde of unopposed fighters steadily and surely.

Next - I might try and beat two allied AAIs with only AKs, or maybe I should just play against a human opponent.......

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » 24 Apr 2006, 15:01

ok it seems to be an 0.63 bug because in 0.6 it reclaims old mexes for better ones. I testet that a min ago. (But even in 0.6 it should do that much more)

But i noticed another point which would improve the AI in FF. Right now, the AI dont use the possibility to build orbital buildings everywhere (water(ground) and therefore a lot of space is wasted. Also the AI sometimes get stucked when starting on a small asteroid. Then it happens, that the AI stays at a certain level and never build more eco or anything else. For a good example try FF-Surrounded and let one AI start on the small asteroid top right.
Ah and it would be great if the AI upgrades all mexes not only the one in the main base :)

I hope i could help you a bit by improving your AI

IceXuick · Post by **IceXuick** » 25 Apr 2006, 05:55

Things i'd like to see fixed in next releas of AAI:

- radar tower clumbs
Ai sometimes build 4-6 radartowers on one spot

- reclaiming
Ai doesn't reclaim wreckage!

- build defens after massive attack
After massive attack on one side, the ai should consider that to be a danger zone, and should build defense there

- After multiple attacks, that resulted into massive losses, the ai should try to take another path

Don't get me wrong, this AI is very good, and i think on most maps the best! So these are suggestions that i'd to see improved!

keep it up!

AF · Post by AF » 25 Apr 2006, 20:17

Ok tot eh lastf ew: AAI already flags danger zones but AAI doesnt come with prebuilt map caches identifying these, you need to train AAI, although admittedly the way ti does ti means ti is mroe a predictive strategy than a reactive strategy which is what you asked for.

And for multiple attacks tkaing different paths, I think the problem ther eis the representation fot he map. Currently I see no AI that has a representation of a path at all that can handle things like that, rather pathfinder routines..

I have designed that itno Epic, and I'm sure AAI/OTAI/NTai will have it in a basic form within one of the next 4 major versions....

submarine · Post by **submarine** » 25 Apr 2006, 22:03

i havent thought much about pathing yet. my aim is to optimize base building and ressources management first before implementing a complex attack system

IceXuick · Post by **IceXuick** » 26 Apr 2006, 00:48

Yes, i'm sorry for my post, which was to soon to tell..

I does learn! and i love that very much. It also uses all available paths! (but however mostly after other paths get stuck with wreckage..

So still the metal reclaiming thing is a quite major thing i'd like to see fixed. The ai, while surrounded by alot of wreckage metal, often is too low on metal, and doesn't reclaim.

Hopefully you can try and make some seach thing, that can locate (large) quatities of wreckage.

Sorry again!

GrOuNd_ZeRo · Post by **GrOuNd_ZeRo** » 26 Apr 2006, 03:27

I have a bug or 2 to report.

-AAI doesn't like it when I crank up the gamespeed, and crashes...

-AAI doesn't like when I give my self units? it throws a fit and crashes? (not sure about this one).

-AAI likes weak units quite a bit for some reason.

but otherwise nothing to complain about! :D

BTW, some random crashes still occur, have you determined how these come around?

submarine · Post by **submarine** » 26 Apr 2006, 09:15

@ice: no need to feel sorry, i appreciate your feedback very much :)
and i just love your maps , centerrocks is really great *g*

GrOuNd_ZeRo wrote: -AAI doesn't like when I give my self units? it throws a fit and crashes? (not sure about this one).

-AAI likes weak units quite a bit for some reason.

BTW, some random crashes still occur, have you determined how these come around?

hmm i never had any game speed related crashes (at least not with gamespeed ranging from 0.3 - 6). i dont know what happens if you give units to the player, but dont give units to the ai, this will cause problems/crahses

Dejavuproned · Post by **Dejavuproned** » 27 Apr 2006, 05:47

Hey, just a few comments after playing with the latest version of the ai.

Mainly I still feel that metal shortage is the main thing that holds aai back, its on a constant nano-stall for metal and usually builds energy production facilities over metal even when energy is plentiful an metal is low. Like Ice said reclaiming would help greatly with this issue, but also I think that aai needs to be far more aggresive on metal patches, especially ones nearby its base, as i've seen it ignore a patch right inside its base for quite sometime before finally building on it (also tends to walk right past nearby metal patches on route to build on metal patches further away). Is it possible to have the aai send out constructors who's sole job is to build on distant metal patches? Even if it just builds and forgets on these patches and some of the extractors are destroyed later on I think the return on metal (especially early) would be worth it.

Also I think the aai would benifit from scouting alittle more, in fact I hardly see it scouting anymore.

Lastly as GZ mentioned the aai likes to build mostly lev 1 tech, and in some cases like TLL it builds only scout units as its main attack force, this tends to hurt it down the stretch alittle (though the tactic of overwhelming the opponent with cheap units sometimes does work).

I hope this doesnt seem to critical, I think the aai is the best ai, it makes mince meat outta NTAI and OTAI regularly. The only ai that so far always beats aai is the SAI which is insane but doesnt learn like aai so i think aai has hte potential to be better especially if the metal econ can be sorted out.

Just my .02

GrOuNd_ZeRo · Post by **GrOuNd_ZeRo** » 27 Apr 2006, 07:19

Well, oddly enough this AI still crashes quite a bit....I dunno what it's issue is...

But I love having an opponment though.

Spring RTS Engine

AAI 0.63 released (win + linux version included)